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Post by athawk11 on Aug 31, 2014 22:08:46 GMT -5
Gents,
I'm at serious risk of missing the FCT this year. I need your help.
Adjusted valves. Note. All were tight. Tighter than .14. I adjusted them to .16 using the magic 9 approach.
I replaced my fuel pump. It is a vacuum pump, but the vacuum doesn't work, so I plugged the vacuum portion off.
I ran the Willys a few times. Everything performed as it should. Put the fender back on then took it for a short ride. About a mile in, the engine started to knock. My heart
sank.
Pulled valve cover. Nothing broken in there. At least nothing obvious. Pulled the pan. No water in the oil. Oil doesn't smell of gas. (at least I can't smell it.). Pulled all main bearings. Pulled all rod bearings. Nothing spun. Bearings all look good. Nothing loose. No bent rods. Crank and cam all spin fine.
Note: There was plenty of oil, and oil pressure was good just before I pulled the pan.
Again, new fuel pump and a valve adjustment are the only things I did before this happened.
What should I look for?
Help.
Tim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 22:13:48 GMT -5
Fuel pumps can knock pretty loud. Pull the caps off the vacuum pump, see if that makes a difference!
It's the only thing that has really changed.
Hope it's a easy fix!!!
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 22:20:14 GMT -5
Your Pulling my leg right.....!
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 22:20:40 GMT -5
Add as well ...why did you change the fuel pump?
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Post by bobtorowski on Aug 31, 2014 22:26:16 GMT -5
I have not heard of adjusting valves with a magic 9.
I thought you are supposed to use feeler gauges?
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Post by athawk11 on Aug 31, 2014 22:29:17 GMT -5
Changed the pump because I was experiencing the same symptoms as Sir Lee. A possible week spring reducing fuel delivery during high throttle situations.
Oh...no, not pulling your chain. Unfortunately, I'm dead serious.
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 22:29:38 GMT -5
I re read....NEW fuel Pump Correct? Come in Sir Hawkridge...Over...
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 22:31:09 GMT -5
Changed the pump because I was experiencing the same symptoms as Sir Lee. A possible week spring reducing fuel delivery during high throttle situations. Oh,...no, not pulling your chain. Unfortunately, I'm dead serious. Reproduction replacement? |
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Post by athawk11 on Aug 31, 2014 22:33:07 GMT -5
Repro...Airtex. 9562. Very similar to an original 3A style pump. It is cheap. Maybe too cheap.
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Post by athawk11 on Aug 31, 2014 22:34:43 GMT -5
I'll tell you right now...if I went through this agony all because of a crappy fuel pump, I'm going to be pissed...and relieved at the same time.
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 22:40:06 GMT -5
Repro...Airtex. 9562. Very similar to an original 3A style pump. It is cheap. Maybe too cheap. Just in talking.. I have heard that the tounge that touches the cam on re-pop fuel pumps is sometimes too short, or long. There is a supposed spacer, shim, that offsets that. If you put the old pump back on...I know its a pain...what do you think will happen? In light of all the fuel problems last year, at FCT, I understand why you did what you did. Better safe than sorry... I want to help, of course. |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 22:41:14 GMT -5
I'll tell you right now...if I went through this agony all because of a crappy fuel pump, I'm going to be pissed...and relieved at the same time. My opinion is...I think your going to be PISSED! Just an Opinion!! |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 23:05:06 GMT -5
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 23:06:28 GMT -5
I may be way off. Just reading what you wrote ,
Images are from the 3a pages.
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 31, 2014 23:10:49 GMT -5
Sooooo What happened? Guess its getting late....
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Night Shift Gary aka gmcjr
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Post by Night Shift Gary aka gmcjr on Sept 1, 2014 2:56:15 GMT -5
Hey Tim, A Question: Any idea why the vacuum pump does not work?
The reason I'm asking, it could be possible that the diaphram likage is hung, and causing all the noise. I think i had a Airtex 9562 (mine had the fuel pump on top, vacuum pump on bottom, I know some where the other way around) on my 3a, had to use a 1/8" in between the block and the pump.
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Post by athawk11 on Sept 1, 2014 7:13:26 GMT -5
Gary, The vacuum was kind of working, but very little vacuum was being created. When run from the manifold, then into the pump, then on to the wiper, it wouldn't move the wiper blade. I plugged....looped a rubber hose from one vacuum intake to the vacuum output and called it good.
HG, I do have an 1/8" spacer in place, so I think I'm okay there. I didn't check the rocker arm depth, but I have this same pump on Whitey and it seems to function fine on that Willys.
What ever this noise is, it is something that happened under medium throttle going about 25 MPH in second gear. One minute I had a quiet engine...the next minute something gave out and I had a medium to high pitched knock.
By adjusting valve clearance, could I have created some...stress point? I don't think so, but what do I know...?
Tim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 8:49:23 GMT -5
I too am suspicious of your fuel pump. I'm not impressed with any of my double acting pumps. They do not help with vacuum production and all my wipers still stop under throttle. It makes sense if you plug off a vacuum port that the lower arm connected to the lower diaphram isn't doing anything but flopping loose in there. If you broke a valve spring it would miss in the exhaust and make a loud ticking noise from that valve. I've had that. I'm going to all glass bowled fuel pumps from now on. Easier and cheaper. You also have a visual aid on fuel supply. A mechanics stethascope would help in finding where the noise is. You could just change back to your old pump and see. Bob, go to the tech posts and you'll see what magic 9 is! Keep us posted Tim! Oilly
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 8:57:08 GMT -5
If the fuel pump change doesn't stop the noise, go back and see if a valve got out of adjustment and excessive clearance isn't the noise. The tappet adjuster is supposed to turn with drag. If one was easy loose feeling, that could have turned. I had one of those too! I just put in a new or different tappet in the lifter and all was well. Oil
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 9:15:09 GMT -5
Im with Leaker, put the old pump back on!. Lee  |
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Post by athawk11 on Sept 1, 2014 9:28:03 GMT -5
I'm in the process of putting in a different pump as we speak. Had to come in for breakfast.
I'm going to temporarily install the oil pan and give these mods a try.
All the valve adjusters were tight. Hopefully they didn't loosen and change.
I'll keep you all posted.
Tim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 10:48:10 GMT -5
Tim, I have room for you in my backseat if it's terminal, (and it's "NOT"). I would bet money on the pump  . I am nervous of the FCT, not wanting to drive it in fear of big trouble  . All will be well Lee |
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Post by athawk11 on Sept 1, 2014 13:42:15 GMT -5
Okay...not the pump. Not the valves. Although, after adjusting to .16, they all seemed loose, so I set them all again.
I ran it for a while and used a long 1/2" bar as a hearing device. The knock sounds like it's at the top of the engine. I just can't pin point it.
Tim
I'm going to try to do a video.
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Post by athawk11 on Sept 1, 2014 14:06:36 GMT -5
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Post by rudycon on Sept 1, 2014 15:45:24 GMT -5
Great video. I'll keep it short. Listen to the experienced L head guys before me, but that clank sounds fast. Too fast for a valve or skirt slap.
I have heard a noise like that. I over revved the begeezus out of a hot 948cc Bugeye Sprite engine. There was a shouldered wrist pin bolt that got stretched/hammered which let the wrist pin walk back and forth in the connecting rod until it hit the side of the cylinder and scored it irreperably.
The noise would go away above 7,000 RPM, so just keep your flattie wound up tight. *joking. I don't think the 2200cc long stroke motor would enjoy life above 7,000 RPM.*
Anyway, I might be able to help you take it apart if you need someone to hold your beer while you turn wrenches.
You are also welcome to drive/ride the Stude-a-willys. My wife can't commit to the trip.
There are many problems with my rig, but it does move, so I'm still in.
My engine knock? I'm calling it the fuel pump (it's probably a rod bearing.)
Oil pressure? "discouraging."
Fuel pressure? "pathetic"
front bump stops? "MIA."
motor mounts? "KIA."
radiator? "undersize."
carburetor? "boiling."
combat effectiveness? "hanging tough at 100%"
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. I am nervous of the FCT, not wanting to drive it in fear of big trouble 
. All will be well 