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Post by athawk11 on Nov 2, 2014 10:23:11 GMT -5
Took Whitey for a spin yesterday...No Love. It still pops out of 2nd. The synchro assembly...Should this fit fairly tight? I can rotate it on the shaft quite a bit. Does this indicate that it might be worn out?
Pulling it apart.............again.
Tim
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Post by zooke581 on Nov 2, 2014 11:17:58 GMT -5
So...you did not replace the syncro assembly, correct, just second gear? I only did bearings and seals and mine popped out of second on decell after rebuild.
I did rebuild the shift tower with new poppet balls, springs and (spring pins) instead of the hard pins. It now actually stays in second 95% of the time. My poppet springs were broken and part of the cause of the shift rail for the forks having too much play and not keeping second in place.
The chevrons on the syncro outer wear too and this might be the problem with your second popping out.
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Post by athawk11 on Nov 3, 2014 13:59:21 GMT -5
Hi Zooke,
I appreciate the feedback.
To date, my shift tower received new springs and a bit of shimming to add force to the poppet. I also replaced the shift fork.
On the T-90, I've replaced 2nd gear...the brass synchro rings(NOS Made in the USA), and installed a complete rebuild kit. I also installed a sealed front bearing. I installed a new pilot bushing in the crank. I've checked the end play...virtually none, so the box is still nice and tight.
I've gone down the list of items on that Willys Memo that solve the pop out while in 2nd, and am running out of things to replace. I read on one of the forums that a guy replaced the synchro assembly and all his problems went away. Mine is kind of loosy goosy on the shaft. I'm hopeful, but skeptical at this point.
Tim
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 16:17:33 GMT -5
The inner part of the synchro assembly that fits the shaft should be tight. Even with that, was the synchro outer collar replaced? Not the brass blocking rings, but the outer collar the shift fork moves? It also has the dogs just like 2nd gear has, but on the inside. If they are angled and worn on the pyramid, they will kick back out. You have fixed the rest. I bought the outer collar from Debella, USA Made. Oilly
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 3, 2014 18:55:03 GMT -5
I agree with what the General just posted.
Also check the wire spring is correctly installed.
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 3, 2014 19:37:41 GMT -5
Sir Hawk, I couldn't pull the exact spring spot, so scroll down. This is the best rebuild T90 site I have come across. And the Dude seems like one of "Our Gang" T90 Rebuild Link |
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Post by athawk11 on Nov 3, 2014 21:14:40 GMT -5
Thanks Leaker. I didn't look that closely at it when I had it apart, but I'm hopeful I'll see the wear you describe.
HG, thanks for posting that guide. That's one of the guides I referenced often while rebuilding the tranny. It's very good.
Tim
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 22:26:53 GMT -5
When the synchronizer is working correctly, the selected gear will stay engaged, regardless of the condition of the poppet balls and their springs.(edit: Except when the weight of the lever pulls it out of second, or a bump bounces it out. This is not the same as the "pops out on decel" problem.) The job of the balls and springs is to hold the rails and lever in position so the fork does not "lean" on the groove in the gear or synchro. Using the balls and springs to hold the synchro sleeve in the second gear position is the same as holding it in with your hand, causing undue wear on the fork and the sleeve.
Any time any part of the synchronizer is replaced, the entire synchronizer assembly should be replaced. All the parts wear together, when one part is worn, they are all worn. BW
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 3, 2014 22:54:16 GMT -5
When the synchronizer is working correctly, the selected gear will stay engaged, regardless of the condition of the poppet balls and their springs.(edit: Except when the weight of the lever pulls it out of second, or a bump bounces it out. This is not the same as the "pops out on decel" problem.) The job of the balls and springs is to hold the rails and lever in position so the fork does not "lean" on the groove in the gear or synchro. Using the balls and springs to hold the synchro sleeve in the second gear position is the same as holding it in with your hand, causing undue wear on the fork and the sleeve. Any time any part of the synchronizer is replaced, the entire synchronizer assembly should be replaced. All the parts wear together, when one part is worn, they are all worn. BW Well said Sir, Well Said... You are indeed TS!! |
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 3, 2014 22:56:10 GMT -5
I am most sure you will get it.
You always do....
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Post by zooke581 on Nov 3, 2014 23:02:40 GMT -5
When the synchronizer is working correctly, the selected gear will stay engaged, regardless of the condition of the poppet balls and their springs.(edit: Except when the weight of the lever pulls it out of second, or a bump bounces it out. This is not the same as the "pops out on decel" problem.) The job of the balls and springs is to hold the rails and lever in position so the fork does not "lean" on the groove in the gear or synchro. Using the balls and springs to hold the synchro sleeve in the second gear position is the same as holding it in with your hand, causing undue wear on the fork and the sleeve. Any time any part of the synchronizer is replaced, the entire synchronizer assembly should be replaced. All the parts wear together, when one part is worn, they are all worn. BW Thanks for that explanation. Now What I was planning is to get the complete sync gear and second gear. |
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Post by athawk11 on Nov 6, 2014 21:43:42 GMT -5
Finally had enough energy to pull the drive train apart again. I have it down to a science. Remove temporary seating. Drop drive shafts. Remove clutch and brake pedal linkage shaft. Remove shifter and tie off the tranny shaft. Drain tranny. Pull TC back cover and gear. Remove TC. Pull tranny main shaft...all in just under 18 minutes. I'm not bragging. Just pointing out how good you get when you keep screwing up. I got my new synchro hub assembly. I compared the old to new. There's nothing left of the chevrons. There just nubs. Old...  New...  A rhetorical question...Ya think this has anything to do with my tranny popping out of 2nd? I was shocked about how badly warn the old one is. I'm finally beginning to understand what to look for when rebuilding a transmission. I just wish I didn't have to take it apart six times to figure it out. Tim |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 22:01:42 GMT -5
Wow, glad you found the trouble!  . Who's parts are you using? Lee  |
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Post by athawk11 on Nov 6, 2014 23:28:10 GMT -5
Who's parts are you using? Lee Good question. Who's parts do you think Walcks offers? Omix Ada? Crown? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 7:49:48 GMT -5
You could just sharpen up the old ones with a file and grinder. That would allow you to speed shift past 2nd because it never would work again! I always roll my eyes when ebay has used transmission parts for sale. The pictures show a worn out piece of junk. The transmissions work pretty good when decent parts are used. I've read where some of the omix ada parts are machined with enough difference that they won't shift worth a darn. Not sure if crown is better. The parts from Debella have worked well for me. Supposed to be USA made. At least you have tried this transmission and know how the rest of it works. I've got two I'll be building, one a side shift, that I've never had a opportunity to drive. They will get a close inspection. Oil
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Post by athawk11 on Nov 13, 2014 13:58:37 GMT -5
Well, my plan was to put this together then give her a spin. Instead, I found this on Craigslist...    An original 3A windshield in excellent condition. I just couldn't pass on the deal... $150.00 and fuel down to Colorado Springs. The gentleman that sold it to me was very nice. We had an interesting conversation. He is building a modified GPW. He found a more appropriate style windshield for his project. I have Whitey's original windshield looking pretty good, but the door channels are so torn up, I decided to go get this one. I also decided to follow Bretto’s recommendation. Many of you know Bretto from the other forums… Per his recommendations, I honed out an old output shaft bearing then clamped it into place. I check how far I was able to pull the shaft rearward. This measurement would be the tolerance between the output shaft and the input shaft…right where the 14 roller bearings are. I had far more movement than the tolerances Bretto has suggested. He quoted the Novak web site…“.010 to .015.” He also explains…There isn’t a “Willys” standard for this, but if you were able to reduce how far the output shaft slips back and out of the roller bearings, it would keep the shaft more forward and thus would improve 2nd gear engagement. I made a shim out of a machine bushing I found at the hardware store. I filed and honed the inner diameter until it fit over the shaft. I used an orbital sander to narrow the shim until my assembled tolerance was .012 - .013.    I still haven’t put the chassis back together. I had intended on doing this work this week, but then we get hit with a fresh round of freezing temperatures. I wonder how cold it would have been if we weren’t experiencing “Global Warming”. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 17:32:15 GMT -5
That is some good work there! I did almost the same with my T84 in my WW2 jeep except the bearings were moving in the end cap of the case. I shimmed the looseness in the case and compressed the gear set that way. Still not perfect but not bad. Oil
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Post by athawk11 on Nov 22, 2014 18:54:16 GMT -5
I’m happy to report that the transmission repairs are behind me. (Slipping out of 2nd gear after a rebuild) I don’t know if this problem was solved by replacing the synchronizer hub, adding the shim to keep the output shaft more forward, or a combination of both. What ever it was, the thing is shifting like a Swiss watch. I wish I didn’t get stalled by this issue, but at the same time, I learned a lot. And at the end of the day, that makes it a win, win situation. Thank you to all that helped me learn about the T-90 transmission. I don’t have any photos of this success, so I thought I’d post a flash back photo. Tim  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 22, 2014 19:32:56 GMT -5
I remember when you got Whitey, and Blackie.
This project has come a long ways since then. Very nice!
I like the flashback photo, I don't remember seeing that one.
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Post by Hawk on May 1, 2015 13:48:20 GMT -5
Pale Yellow shot on a spare hood. Single stage Urethane with a flattener added. We are a Semi-gloss Willys family around here.  |
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Post by Haines Garage on May 1, 2015 16:41:21 GMT -5
I'm liking the Yellow. Looks good. I like the semi-gloss look as well. |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 18:51:12 GMT -5
Looookin great! . |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 21:46:30 GMT -5
Hot danm!!
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 7:19:34 GMT -5
Glad to see you are still at it Hawky. Busy jeep hands are happy hands. Oil
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Post by rudycon on May 2, 2015 18:09:08 GMT -5
Wow! so straight! so smooth! Like the flat paint.
The forum is more fun from home where I can see pictures. at work, most pictures count as "online storage" and get "websensed."
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. Who's parts are you using?
