Crank seized

[Deleted]

Hmm.. Tough one. I'm doing my best to think this one out, besides just throwing darts so to speak.
So if seems like I'm rambling, bear with me...

12v is more forgiving of bad connections, but the same rules apply. More to that in a minute..
Modern ignition wires? Do you mean carbon suppression type wire? As to why it ran before, more to that in a minute..
If so, I believe as Lee said earlier, that may be contributing to the problem. In my opinion, the old round can coil and points type ignition really cant fire hot enough for modern wires.
Modern wires are designed to suppress RFI, by built in resistance. Today's (last 30 years) ignitions are designed for it, plus the RFI plays hell with the ECUs and other electronics, which our little jeeps don't have.

Why did the jeep run before? Because everything was newer, cleaner, and preformed better. There has been obvious degradation from setting, so what was adequate before is not now. The same thing with the grounding/wiring a little bit here and there adds up to a lot.

It sounds like there are a lot little piddly problems, by themselves, they wouldn't amount to much, but together they cause a butt load of trouble....and that's the sonofabitch ones to troubleshoot.

[rudycon]

Well, let's cut the problem down a bit. Moose was able to static time it. That means points work to me. He's got SOME spark.
So leave the points/condenser alone.
Plug wires, especially the carbon cord suppression wires will go bad over time.

Moose. Get out your ohm meter and test out the coil's internal resistance, then test out all 5 plug wires.

12 volt coil? should have about 1.25 ohms.

high tension wires should be less than 7000 ohms per foot. (Typical Ford specification, take it or leave it.) New resistor type wires are usually <1000 ohms per foot.

[Deleted]

Thanks Rudy and Jr....!

Here is what has been discovered this morning (it would have taken me awhile to think to test the plug wires)

The wires are labeled: high temp super stock copper core 7mm. (The tiny wires inside the insulation don't look like copper, but are silverish in color)

I had to set the ohms on the lowest setting (200) for them to register. The other settings just registered at zero. Here is what they measured:

#1. .4
#2. .4
#3. .6
#4. .4

Have we solved one piece of the riddle? This seems ridiculously low (unless I'm not translating the .4 correctly in my head). In the mean time, I'm going to look on my shelves for some grounding wire options for the engine.

EDITED: I just ran a google search and found the wires for sale at OReillys. link

They advertise 0 ohms/foot in one spot and in the fine print they say 500 ohms/foot. If so, then my wires might be fine, yes?

The coil checked out at 2.3. It's new. I also compared it with the other new one in a box. It's also at 2.3.

My brain just jumped gears. I know fuel is making it to the carb. Will the fact that the throttle cable is unattached make a difference when starting? I've tried offsetting it by depressing the accelerator pedal at different times. The idle mixture screw is currently set at 1.5 turns. Every now and then the WC floods and behaves like this. I wonder if I'm just flooding it? I have (in desperation) sprayed starting fluid directly into the spark plug holes.

[Deleted]

Wish I was there with you Moosy! Put the engine at 5 degrees BTDC and look at the points. They should be just opening with the rotor pointing to the # one wire. Then 1342 in the direction the distributor is turning. Yes you definately need to ground the engine to the frame. Jumper cables will work for your trials. Those floor starter switches are notorious for getting dirty or shorting and draining the battery. For 20 bucks, put in a new one. If your points are not just opening, set the gap, and then loosen the dissy and retard it, then come back against the turn until they just open a slight little bit. You can use a test meter to see it if you want. I'm all worked up and may have to go have a cold Hamms thinking about your trials-----------LOL, Oilly

[Deleted]

Oily...don't fret too much! I need your competence in my corner!!

I've checked, rechecked and made mini adjustments. I ran a jumper cable from the engine to the connection on the frame where the negative ground from the battery connects. Is that too much?

Here are the results:

She is trying! Trying really hard. But things are getting hot! The foot starter is very warm. Almost uncomfortably warm. And my hands can stand more heat than anyone else in the family. Also, the wire from the foot switch to the starter...HOT. The wire from battery to foot switch...HOT with a little smoke at the battery terminal.

The problem(s) must lie somewhere in here.

Is it the foot switch?
The fat wires?
How I temporarily grounded the engine?

[Deleted]

To temporarily ground the engine, run the jumper cables from the (-) term of the battery directly to a solid part of the engine. How long are you cranking the starter before the cables get that hot?

Boy, you have got yourself a head scratcher!!!!!
I'm like Oily, wish I could be there in person!!

[Deleted]

The first time, I would have said I was cranking it too long. This time, I cleaned the paint off of one of the threaded studs on the firewall and ran a jumper from the stud to the engine. For sanity's sake, I also cleaned up the frame grounding point that the battery neg attaches to.

I cranked a few short bursts and the positive cable to foot switch was very hot.

I'm going to run out and buy a new foot switch...because THAT is always fun to switch out! Lol. You guys could drink quite a few cold one and laugh at me if you were here!

[rudycon]

Moose: Did you know that your M37 and my Studebaker might have the SAME distributor? I have an AIT series distributor. I found the right rotor part number on an M37 site. Rotor AL107 Cap AL106 (napa part numbers)

Wish My Grandpa or Hardwood John were there to help you. Those guys could get things to start when no one else could. One trick? Give 'er a break. Go have a beer. Put the bat-rey (That's how the old timers pronounce it ya know.) on the charger and come back in an hour or two. Those are the guys that taught me the magic. I worked on a golf course that had an old IH farm truck (left behind when the farmer sold out. ha! Probably because she wouldn't start!) Only the Boss, an old farm kid himself, the mechanic, and I were able to get the IH to run. First day on the job, the boss told me she was cold blooded, but I coaxed her into rumbling, smoking life then shouted out the window, "hey Rodge! How many gears does this thing have?" Rodger spit out his chew, shrugged and said, "Don't know. I just keep shiftin' 'er."
Good enough for me.


.4 sounds OK for solid core plug wires.
Is this bucket 6 volt or 12 volt? most 6 volt coils are closer to 1.5 ohms. Most 12V coils are closer to 3?

Hey how about measuring from the primary to the HT tower? I have seen coils short out this way too. Primary resistance would still test out OK even if the coil was bad. low to high tension.

Lemme go out and check on the stude-a-willy's coil and copper plug wires.


Stude-a-willy's 6 volt test results:

Coil is napa # 904. 1.4ohms on the primary. Infinite from the HT tower to anything.
My copper plug wires are .001 ohms. (no resistance.)




So I looked around a bit. internal resistance is all over the place:


NAPA IC-12 Echlin 2.1 ohms primary, 8.9 ohms secondary. For 6 or 12 volt systems

NAPA IC-14 Echlin 3.25 ohms primary resistance (no external resistor used) 12 volt system.

NAPA MPEIC14SB same as IC-14, just cheap Chinese. $18.69

NAPA IC-27 Echlin 2.2 ohms primary, 6.38 ohms secondary, for 6 or 12 volt systems


OK, so if that is a 6 volt system, and your coil is closer to 2.3 ohms...I'm sure you can run that coil on 12 volts for awhile. Pull the coil hot wire, and hook the ignition up to your 12 volt battery +. battery - to the engine for a ground. That'll put a 12 volt zing in her spark! Now the coil will see 12 volts even when cranking. And the rest of the jeep will still see 6 volts so you won't burn up the gas gage. Be sure to disconnect when you are not cranking so you don't burn the points and be ready to shut 'er down by pulling the battery connection since the key won't do the trick any more.

[Deleted]

Same as my Dodge, eh?? I'm going to have to go check that out! AND you used to work at a golf course? So what if you were on the more manly maintenance side! Take that HG!

New update: switched out the foot switch with a new made in China napa part ech st6. Nice. So much for the parts made in Mexico.

She turns over so much better, always on command and wires aren't hot.

Every now and then I got a small backfire out of the carb. That's exciting. I would hop out and give the dizzy a tweak. I really need Lee sitting in the F marked drivers chair starting while I adjust the dizzy. Finally, on the umpteenth try, the engine came to life and by giving her the gas, it continued to chug, albeit very rough. Now is when I wish the throttle were hooked up because I think I could pop out and give the dizzy one more tweak and go for a ride. I guess in a pinch, Oily could sit in the seat, too.

Get those beers on ice...we are close to a major celebration.

[Deleted]

And Rudy...thank you for a TON of research on your Saturday morning. You totally helped confirm working parts so I could investigate elsewhere!!

[Deleted]

Your description of running and popping out the carb is a timing issue . If you got it to run at all, you are close. If you can get it started again, get a helper to keep it running, and slowy adjust the dizzy. It should immediately tell you which way and then come out of it's problem and run. Good work Moosy! Oilly

[Deleted]

It's a miracle. A bonafide Christmas miracle in August! She started up a second time! Boo-yow!

Still no helper, so this time I sat in the jeep prepared: I had a few bricks with me to gently place on the dizzy.

She came to life, and I went to make the adjustments. Oddly, when I made them one at a time (floor starter, grumble, hop out adjust, repeat) I was slowly working it clockwise and the engine was making more progress to starting. When I had it running and played with the dizzy, I had to spin it counter clockwise to make the engine stronger.

So in the end, I replaced the floor switch, switched spark plugs (champion to autolite 295), readjusted spark plugs on dizzy cap (originally found they were backwards), ran another ground to engine...and obviously had a hard time with the timing! Lol

This was all on top of rebuilding the broken starter and curing a stuck engine!

Couldn't have done much of this without the brain trust, as well as Haines, standing behind me helping. Many thanks to the gang at the garage!! ::)x10!

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

Oh...I forgot to mention one more thing. When I got back from Napa, I changed the playlist coming out of my iPod. I ditched the modern music and put on my 1940s playlist. THAT was definitely the turning point for the jeep starting.

[Deleted]

HOT DANM! She's running! GOOD JOB!

[Haines Garage]

Congratulations Sir Turd Muscle. !!
Great Job, I knew you could do it .
What you don't know. , is that I called you three times , to tell you. I had a day off today , And was going to come help you! For Real !!
However you don't answer the phone. ...

Buying shoes for your kids my ass !

Oh well. .... All is well that ends well ,
Very cool thread .

Your a good guy Turdrocy , and a good sport ,
Making you a Lt of the KJRT. !
I think all would agree with me , and if they don't ... Screw Em !

Now how about that !

And I am giving you a new Avitar .....
Later !!!!

[Deleted]

I'm so proud of Moosy I'm celebrating! Good job buddy. Now, all that F'ng around taught you new skills and you can tune by ear now. Way to go. You graduated from the outer limits into the in zone! Now if Haines can fly up to Minnesota, you can too. Ride over with lee and Haines and come to God's country in June next summer. Or, just fly by them and land in Rapid City. I'll come and get you. You need to do it! Jeeps are cool. Oilly Friend