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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 21:56:39 GMT -5
Yes, she's got some life in 'er! Stuck valves are a possibility. Another easy test, If have a hand crank, turn the engine over, you should feel some compression every half turn in a four banger engine, if not check the valves.
Static timing: With the key off. Spin the engine over a couple of revolutions, in normal running direction, that takes up all the lash in the timing gears. Next, you have to pay attention. You want to stop the engine at 5 degrees before TDC with number 1 at its compression stroke. How i do is, remove the plug from number one, as I'm spinning the engine over as previously mentioned, (if you don't have a crank, use a socket on the front nut, or roll it in high gear, just have plenty of floor space) I count the compression strokes I feel, there should be 3 then nothing, as I SLOWLY turn the crank, I watch the timing marks, and stop as soon as I line up 5 BTDC. If you over shoot it, just crank two full revolutions and stop again. If you try to turn the engine backwards, it will put lash in all the timing gears.
Now, the engine is where the #1 plug should fire.
Loosen the distributor, the rotor should be at the # 1 post, if not check your compression strokes again. Honestly, all you would have to do in normal circumstances is line the timing marks up, but we want to make sure the rotor is oriented right.
The distributor is loose, turn the distributor COUNTER CLOCKWISE until the points close, shouldn't be much.
Take your multimeter, set it to ohms, (I prefer an old analog one for this job, but a digital works just as good!)
Ground one lead to a good clean chassis ground, place the other lead on the distributor terminal that goes to the - side of the coil. You should see no resistance, or damn little. If you do, the points are bad or there is a bad connection somewhere.
Okie dokie, SLOWLY turn the distributor CLOCKWISE until INSTANT the meter reads Infinity. That's the exact moment the points open and the coil fires.
Lock down the distributor.
If the meter never changes, there are issues some where ie shorted condenser, etc.
You can also do this with a test light, just be quick.
Hook the test light same as the meter, turn the key on, as you turn the distributor clockwise, the bulb will light the instant when the points open, because the current from the coil that was flowing through the points, is now shunted through the lamp filament.
This is not as accurate as dynamic timing, because dynamic timing takes out more of the variables, such as advance movement, distributor wear, etc. But it gets damn close!!
Hope this is understandable!!!
Gary the professional spark chaser.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 6:00:50 GMT -5
I think you explained it all very well. Or at least I interpreted it easily. Now we will go see if I interpreted correctly what you said!
Thanks, Gary.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 8:14:29 GMT -5
The piece de resistance may have been found! While performing Gary's trick, I was spinning the engine with my hand crank to get the lag out. While doing it, I placed small pieces of a paper towel over the plug holes watching the order of the pistons rising. As number one came around the rotation, I looked at the rotor. It was pointing around 12/11 o'clock. The plug wire was around 5 o'clock. Further confirmation shows the dizzy out of position compared to the manual.  Hopefully I'm about to solve the riddle. Now...this jeep is 12 volts, so the dizzy isn't stock. I don't see a data tag on it. Are all dizzy's created equal in regards to condenser placement, oiler locale, etc? If so, this guy is 180 off. The GPW motor in my MB jeep was like this. I've since corrected that issue to make it resemble the manual. But that's a whole other story! By the way...loving the multi meter trick! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 8:49:25 GMT -5
The piece de resistance may have been found! While performing Gary's trick, I was spinning the engine with my hand crank to get the lag out. While doing it, I placed small pieces of a paper towel over the plug holes watching the order of the pistons rising. As number one came around the rotation, I looked at the rotor. It was pointing around 12/11 o'clock. The plug wire was around 5 o'clock. Further confirmation shows the dizzy out of position compared to the manual. Hopefully I'm about to solve the riddle. Now...this jeep is 12 volts, so the dizzy isn't stock. I don't see a data tag on it. Are all dizzy's created equal in regards to condenser placement, oiler locale, etc? If so, this guy is 180 off. The GPW motor in my MB jeep was like this. I've since corrected that issue to make it resemble the manual. But that's a whole other story! By the way...loving the multi meter trick! IICR, According to the manual, #1 is supposed to at the 5 o'clock position, but the the cylinder could also be at TDC on the exhaust stroke, 180 degrees out. Paper towels would still blow out because there is less resistance there than blowing the air troughs the exhaust valve, muffler ect. I would roll it over a couple more times with my thumb over the plug hole just verify. If it is 180 out, just swap the plug wires around on the cap for testing purposes. It's all the same. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 11:04:46 GMT -5
Alright, lads...here is an update...
I believe I've finally got the spark issue all situated. Thanks, Gary...I did your static time, too. Pretty cool.
However, still not much happening except for an occasional backfire. I popped the valve cover off and there are 3 stuck exhaust valves in the open position. The easy way to go about this would be to remove the head and attack from above. Is there anything else that can be done to loosen them before taking this approach?
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Post by rudycon on Aug 19, 2014 15:54:52 GMT -5
3 out of 4 stuck? That's grounds for pulling the head. Lube the stems with your favorite unsticking concoction. (marvel mystery oil is easy.)
Tap valves back down only in the center when the cam is out of the way. Crank the engine around to push them back up. repeat until they close reliably.
OK, don't want to do that. I get it. I don't want to do that either.
Put a slug of marvel mystery oil down the plug hole on the dead cylinders. Cover the plug holes with a rag so oil doesn't spray everywhere. Crank the engine around nice and fast to spray that unsticker concoction around. Some oil is bound to get on the valve stems. Do that for a few days. Put the plugs back in and start it on starting fluid. I find CRC electronic parts cleaner works better than ether because it doesn't give me that headache.
Still stuck? Can you tow it around? Put 'er on the chain and tow it around until it starts. A 4 cly with 3 dead holes will shake so hard the stuck valves might shake loose. hot engine probably helps too.
I know the 1934 Caterpillar will start and run (unhappily) on 2 until the other 2 jugs get the idea that it is time to go to work. (The human powered crank start system finds it easier to crank with a couple of stuck valves too.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 16:18:19 GMT -5
OK, don't want to do that. I get it. I don't want to do that either. I know the 1934 Caterpillar will start and run (unhappily) on 2 until the other 2 jugs get the idea that it is time to go to work. (The human powered crank start system finds it easier to crank with a couple of stuck valves too.) LOVE IT! Those two quotes made me chuckle out loud. I've been sitting here (at work) trying to motivate myself to find the inspiration to take the head off. This jeep is definitely showing the signs of lack of use. With the head off, the job is stupid simple. For whatever reason, it just seems like (to me) a bit of a colossal PITA to undo the everything to remove it. Of course, I felt the same way removing the fender so I could get a good look at the valve train.  The situation might come to a "head" tomorrow!  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 19, 2014 18:23:53 GMT -5
How about some pics if that super project pal ?
Had to say something smart , I haven't picked on you in a while....
Needed my fix !!!!
Nice Avitar by the way !!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 20:02:04 GMT -5
 For Haines. The weather is here...wish you were beautiful. Sincerely, Bo Now, once you get through your little box of tissues and tears, why don't you come help me?! Bwahahaha. And my new profile picture is ghetto. This is a "serious" thread, poncho, to be used for generations of jeep builders to come. Don't muck it up, buttwipe. |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 19, 2014 20:08:18 GMT -5
View AttachmentFor Haines. The weather is here...wish you were beautiful. Sincerely, Bo Now, once you get through your little box of tissues and tears, why don't you come help me?! Bwahahaha. And my new profile picture is ghetto. This is a "serious" thread, poncho, to be used for generations of jeep builders to come. Don't muck it up, buttwipe. Looking good ! But I am far too busy to work on a Ford ! Just kidding my Friend! The advice you have been given here is invaluable ! These fellas know Wayyyyy more than I! Another stab. Pull the head. Use the brass drift trick !! Be Careful !! Take Sir Rudy's advice ! PS Marvel Mystery Oil is " The Schizz" |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 21:08:18 GMT -5
Unfortunately, pulling the head is probably the best way to go....  But you could try the oil in the cylinder trick, all you have to lose is time. |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 19, 2014 21:11:52 GMT -5
Unfortunately, pulling the head is probably the best way to go.... But you could try the oil in the cylinder trick, all you have to lose is time. Yep! All good advice . |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 19, 2014 21:12:12 GMT -5
Unfortunately, pulling the head is probably the best way to go.... But you could try the oil in the cylinder trick, all you have to lose is time. Yep! All good advice . |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 21:17:08 GMT -5
Here is my tip!, I will come with my trailer and haul away the 2 Jeeps in the picture, then you can get back to baking cookies and yard work, save you much trouble  . I'll even buy you and Haines lunch!  . Lee  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 19, 2014 21:34:39 GMT -5
Here is my tip!, I will come with my trailer and haul away the 2 Jeeps in the picture, then you can get back to baking cookies and yard work, save you much trouble . I'll even buy you and Haines lunch! . Lee Now that there is a plan !!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 21:35:51 GMT -5
I do love me some cookies and dough. I'm thinking I'll be popping the head off tomorrow. I'll report back with my finds... And as for HG being too busy to work on a Ford...this blessed engine is from one of his postwar blessed jeeps! There is NOTHING Ford about it! Lol. But I will agree with him in regards to the great info being exchanged! |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 19, 2014 21:37:38 GMT -5
Who loves you Bo Bo .....
This guy !!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 8:35:29 GMT -5
Moose, I'll bet the head says Willeessseee on it! No Found on Road Dead here. You can get at the stems better to spray lube if you pull the intake/exhaust, but the rear exhaust manifold stud is one that is feared. If it breaks off, you have to pull the engine or body to get a drill on it straight. That's a pekerroid of a job. I wouldn't wish that on any Jeep guy. Oilly
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 9:13:24 GMT -5
Oily...I thought about the manifold route...until I REALLY looked at the rusted up nuts! I have opted for the head route, which went somewhat smoothly. Now, the great Operation Soak The Valves begins...
I hate waiting.
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 20, 2014 9:16:49 GMT -5
Oily...I thought about the manifold route...until I REALLY looked at the rusted up nuts! I have opted for the head route, which went somewhat smoothly. Now, the great Operation Soak The Valves begins... I hate waiting. Pull the head.... You're going to wind jk doing it anyways .... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 20:45:36 GMT -5
Oily...I thought about the manifold route...until I REALLY looked at the rusted up nuts! I have opted for the head route, which went somewhat smoothly. Now, the great Operation Soak The Valves begins... I hate waiting. Pull the head.... You're going to wind jk doing it anyways .... Hey, hey, hey...keep it family friendly, HG! Although, in regards to rusty nuts, I've heard from the older fellas that a good swift jerk is better than a slow, hard tug. Damn, I just screwed up my own thread! Here is my update: pulled the head. It came off very easily. I was worried about snapping off either the temp gauge or one of the head bolts. Not a one gave me any stubbornness. Well, maybe one bolt, but I gave it a few swift jerks with the breaker bar. Exhaust valve on number one was quite the donkey's ass, but in the end, I prevailed. I stopped on exhaust on number two. (Had to go teach a lesson!). I was making progress. Hopefully tomorrow I can finish that one and, if luck is with me, get to number 4. Like HG, number four looks like it will be a bitch. Location, location, location. Grrrrrrrr. |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 20, 2014 21:11:30 GMT -5
So you took my advice ..... And pulled it !
Then again that is what you are best at !!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 21:34:33 GMT -5
So you took my advice ..... And pulled it ! Then again that is what you are best at !!!! Mans gotta do, what a mans gotta do! Yo Bo! It looks like your making progress in fine style! |
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Post by Haines Garage on Aug 20, 2014 21:50:05 GMT -5
So you took my advice ..... And pulled it ! Then again that is what you are best at !!!! Mans gotta do, what a mans gotta do! Yo Bo! It looks like your making progress in fine style! I pick on him a lot , it's only because I like him very much... Did I just say that.....Crap! Damn Warsteiner !!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 21:54:26 GMT -5
So you took my advice ..... And pulled it ! Then again that is what you are best at !!!! For the record...the head was pulled WAY BEFORE HG ChIMED IN. No way can he take credit for the mess that is developing in bay number one of my garage! If anything, props go to Oily, Jr and possibly El Capitan.  . Haines...you are nothing more than a fan in the stands...a great, big athletic supporter! Time to go spritz my valves one last time before bed. |
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. I'll even buy you and Haines lunch! 
.
. Haines...you are nothing more than a fan in the stands...a great, big athletic supporter! Time to go spritz my valves one last time before bed.