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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 11:33:52 GMT -5
themoose74 Avatar 17 hours ago themoose74 said: ive rebuilt two of T84s but I am by no means an expert. What sort of noise are you hearing? Grinding? If not grinding, does it at least slide in without any hesitations? 2nd and 3rd gears makes me think it might be something to do with the synchro. If you aren't careful, they can be installed backwards and everything will still fit. Don't ask me how I know... :-*Thanks Moose I don't think that the Synchronizer is in backwards, but I wouldn't bet on anything. How much Sloop did you have between your synchronizer? I had about 2mm on both sides. looked very even. when shifting outside of vehicle it shifted perfect. sliding synchronizer back into second was very smooth and same with sliding syncro forward worked just like it should. I purchased a shim kit but didn't think it need it. The trans in the jeep shifts very smooth at idle not moving . As soon as it goes in 2nd or 3rd when moving it sounds like marbles in a jar. Read more: hainesgarage.proboards.com/thread/1139/antique-vehicle-today?page=14#ixzz3YWln9rDTOddly enough, I was driving my jeep around this morning and started to hear a weird momentary noise while shifting between 2nd and 3rd. Maybe we can kill 2 birds...although I'm not as loud as a jar of marbles. My transmission was rebuilt several years ago and I have never had any issues with it (after I figured out which direction the synchro goes!). While driving today, I would hear a noise only when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. Maybe it was my golf clubs rattling at that specific speed, but it sounded and felt like it came from the gear box or bell housing area. If I get time this afternoon, I'll pull the top and see if there are any broken teeth. Beyond that, any ideas on what to look for? Also, it happens as I pull my foot off of the clutch pedal...but only 2nd to 3rd. Not downshifting or any other gear. What about a bad needle bearing in the main shaft? Doesn't make sense if it were only one gear, tho. I'd think it would be present continuously. What does a failing throwout bearing sound like? What does a failing u-joint on a drive shaft sound like? As for splits question with synchro slop...2mm sounds pretty good. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 12:47:16 GMT -5
Here is what I can offer. A throw out brg. Only generally makes noise when the clutch is pressed. A u joint will rattle and vibrate under acceleration. Lee  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Apr 27, 2015 19:20:37 GMT -5
I am not one to argue with the CaptaIn... But my thought are the throw out bearing can wirrrrrr. And the worn out u joints will clunk! From what you are describing in this post....syncros! Just because they are new doesn't mean they are good! But he'll....what do I know.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 19:37:13 GMT -5
A clunk. That's a good word to describe what I'm hearing. But it doesn't clunk every time.
From what the Cap'n and HG are saying, it sounds like the TO bearing and U joint is probably not the problem.
I never had a chance to pop the top and investigate. I've got a busy week ahead; hopefully Friday I can take a looksy.
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Post by Mr. Wizzard on Apr 27, 2015 20:02:32 GMT -5
From my past experience, you can generally tell if you have bad U joints. You will FEEL it haha. TO bearing will give a noise every time you press the clutch, not just in one gear. I wouldn't attempt to speculate without hearing/feeling it personally but it sounds like it is definitely something internal. I would think it's the synchros as well from what you said but I wouldn't put my money on it at this point. lol
-Mark
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Post by jeffwho on Apr 27, 2015 20:43:17 GMT -5
Oy Moosey wait'll you hear the noises that Lucille makes!! When I was over the other day, we shoulda driven around the block .. then again you probably wouldn't have let me leave! Thanks for spraying Dopey down. Gots any paint left?
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Post by Haines Garage on Apr 27, 2015 21:00:46 GMT -5
The clunk usually happens on initial acceleration or I slow shifting of gears. I am still going the syncros ! The brass parts they make today ....well suck!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 21:40:41 GMT -5
A throw out bearing when worn out makes a terrible rumble bad bearing noise when it makes contact with the pressure plate fingers or when you depress the clutch. It will make that noise until you release the clutch. If it never stops making contact with the fingers of the pressure plate due to bad adjustment, it won't stop making the noise. That adjustment being too tight, is most likey why it's now bad. The jar of marbles noise sounds like something didn't go all the way out of gear on one side or the other. The blocking rings, or brass synchros as some call them, can stick to the cone part of the gear they run against. A pry with a screwdriver will release them if you remove the shift tower assembly. I often hear a whir noise when I'm slowly engaugeing the clutch on my Jeeps when they have sat and cooled down. Especially when I just started them and am backing out of the garage. I believe that to be the input shaft fitment in the brass pilot bearing. The complete shifting in and out of a gear in a T84 has always felt wimpy to me. If the wear and slop and endfloat is excessive, they just don't shift worth a darn. They also use brass bushings instead of needle bearings in many locations that a T90 does. One thing I learned in shifting them, it sometimes helps to go back into the next lower gear before going to the other pair of gears. For example if you are in 3rd, go into second and back to neutral before you try for 1st/reverse when stopped. It acts like you need to get the shifter rail centered better. Oil
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 18:51:22 GMT -5
Another noise: if you have a PTO mounted to the back of the transfercase, and the transmission mainshaft has too much endfloat, it can nibble on the disengauged PTO gear and make the bag of marbles sound!!!!! Oil
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 9:52:45 GMT -5
Soooooo....this morning I had a little bit of time to kill prior to going to work, so I thought I'd pop the top of the T84 and begin the investigation. I guess there is ALWAYS a bright side, but it looks kind of gloomy right now. I found A LOT of steel chards across the upper side of the transmission case. They were predominantly sitting in the forward poppet ball hole on the 1st/reverse shift rail and any other hole around the upper edge of the case. Baby tiny steel specks were layered around the gasket. I used my pencil magnet to collect as many of them as possible and then carefully wiped the upper surfaces with dry paper towels. I shifted through the gears, pushed the clutch pedal and slowly rolled the jeep around. I did not see any chipped teeth on first, second, third, reverse gears. The synchronizer appeared alright, too. I haven't drained the oil to see the gears on the lower end, yet. Here is what I did see: a pretty significant sized chip in the 1st/reverse shift rail. It is to the right of the poppet ball hole.   I'm not sure if this stuff was causing the clunk when I shift to second gear last week...or if this is an effect of the cause that created that clunky noise. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 6:41:36 GMT -5
Are you sure you don't have beavers in your Tranny? Those are some big chunks to have floating around in there. I'd drain and wash out all that stuff. I'd also start looking for where the source of it is. Your blocking rings and drive dogs on 2nd and third are pretty worn looking in the picture. I'm wondering if the clunk is metal going between the gears. Not good. You should line up a tournament with Tiger Woods and win it so you can buy all new stuff for your tranny. I haven't had the guts to open mine up yet. I'm not fond of pulling the transmission at all. It is a pain. Oil
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Post by Haines Garage on May 13, 2015 15:41:02 GMT -5
Is this the transmission you rebuilt when you did the GPW project?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 17:10:36 GMT -5
HG...yes, this transmission was rebuilt about 7 years ago. Unfortunately, I wasn't present when it was done. My dad did it at his home in Spartanburg. I don't recall much (my memory stinks) other than needing the main cluster gear. I pulled the transmission a few years ago when the synchro jammed and I was stuck between gears. That's when I learned it was installed backwards and caused the jumping out of second. I bought a new synchro, but it would not mesh with the gears. I ended up having to used old and new synchro parts to make it shift. (That could be a rant in the parts vent section).
I haven't updated this thread, but I did drain the oil and pushed the jeep around the driveway while shifting through the gears. All the teeth look fine. I can find no other source for steel shreds other than the chunks missing from the shift rail.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 17:59:26 GMT -5
You can replace that shift rail without pulling the transmission. If you take the inspection plate off the back of the transfercase, and pull the drive gear off the end of the mainshaft, the shift rails have holes there that allow them to come out. Your call big fellow. Oil
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Post by jeffwho on May 13, 2015 19:06:19 GMT -5
Moosey, I know I'm all thumbs but I can help if you need any. I reckon it's about time I try to learn me something.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 20:56:46 GMT -5
A good size hand full of hardwood sawdust and top it off with GL4 and all will be fine!.
Pirate smiley
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Post by Haines Garage on May 13, 2015 20:57:12 GMT -5
Most of why I am asking, is about rebuild parts that are current. So Junk! I looked for all the NOS that I could find, but that is all BS too. I just would hate to see that all of the time and money I spent rebuilding my transmission and transfer case would be futile. I rode around the block twice. Only used 1st and second gear... No leaks or issues..but I see stuff like this, it gets me nervous. Comprendo?
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Post by Haines Garage on May 13, 2015 21:12:57 GMT -5
A good size hand full of hardwood sawdust and top it off with GL4 and all will be fine!. Pirate smiley That's BS!! And you know where to find the pirate smiley as well....Bastage Corksucker!  |
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Post by Haines Garage on May 13, 2015 21:16:06 GMT -5
You can replace that shift rail without pulling the transmission. If you take the inspection plate off the back of the transfercase, and pull the drive gear off the end of the mainshaft, the shift rails have holes there that allow them to come out. Your call big fellow. Oil That would be a cool video and tutorial...  |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 21:47:31 GMT -5
A good size hand full of hardwood sawdust and top it off with GL4 and all will be fine!. Pirate smiley That's BS!! And you know where to find the pirate smiley as well....Bastage Corksucker! Not on my PC, South Dakota we will go over this!  Pirate smiley bitch |
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Post by Haines Garage on May 13, 2015 22:59:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 5:00:32 GMT -5
Wow...you guys totally jacked up this thread. Well done.
I thought protocol was to wait until a resolution was obtained before getting stupid.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 17:45:33 GMT -5
Wow...you guys totally jacked up this thread. Well done. I thought protocol was to wait until a resolution was obtained before getting stupid. So tell us, what did you find!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 18:11:42 GMT -5
At the moment, the shift rail. I haven't removed the unit and disassembled it yet. I think there is more to be found.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 18:53:15 GMT -5
Ok, sorry for the off topic post, but HG has a problem here and will not accept the truth! |
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