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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:39:15 GMT -5
I just replaced the battery and the solenoid to ammeter hot lead. The click and bounce was going on this morning when I walked into the shop. The key is off. WTF!? Bad ammeter?
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Post by athawk11 on May 18, 2016 7:42:04 GMT -5
Insulator damaged around the ammeter stud? Grounding out?
Hawk
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 7:54:36 GMT -5
Insulator damaged around the ammeter stud? Grounding out? Hawk I betcha a dollar to a doughnut hole Hawky is on the right track! Ifffn you haven't..... a good idea to disconnect the battery in the meantime.. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 9:19:28 GMT -5
could have your battery in backwards.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 11:04:49 GMT -5
Hawk - possible. Haven’t gotten in to it just yet.
gmcjr - First thing I did.
leonard007 - Nope.
No power to the ignition switch when battery connected. Hot lead is 12 ga wire.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 15:32:52 GMT -5
Well. I was hoping to avoid a long drawn out explanation but I see I must. Needing to test a customer carburetor and needing to drive over to my daughter’s house to take in her mail, feed her chickens, dog and cat, I fired up Old Blue and off we went. About fifteen miles to her house. No problem, a sweet midday ride at about 50MPH, with good temperature (180º), good oil pressure (45-50psi) and a good, positive charge rate on the ammeter and 20 minutes later I was there. I shut the old girl down, squirmed out and went about the chores. Finished, I climbed back into the Jeep and fired her up. Deciding I wanted to stop for gas on the way home (gas gauge still doesn’t work) I proceeded to one of my favorite fuel stops. On the way there, the motor seemed to slightly momentarily hesitate a couple of times at cruise speed (50MPH). I chalked it up to carbon breaking loose in the cylinders. About 10 miles, same operating parameters, and I arrived at the station. I shut down and proceeded with that chore. I climbed back in, turned the key to start and pressed the button on the dashboard. Silence. Nada! Nothing! Zilch! Zero! Not even a click from the solenoid. Crap. Now what? Out and to the hood, raising it. All looked well. I tried to turn the battery ground cable and it seemed tight. I had just cleaned the terminals a few days before because the old 12 volt fire box was getting a bit long in the tooth from a lot of idling with little charging going on, despite my efforts to keep it at full charge in the shop, and I had been contemplating purchasing another soon. Went back to the key, turned it, pressed the button and got the same empty response and a deeper empty feeling in the gut. I jiggled this and jiggled that. All connections were good, clean and tight. Of course, I only had carb tools with me.
 SHATPEEFRICKFIRECANTLUCKDUCKUTEROINVERTEDVAGINYHOMOANBATCHBASTAGE! MO-FO!
So. I calmly called AAA. “What’s a Jeep Willis?” Please just send a roll-back to carry me and my dead Jeep home. Thank you. An hour and a half later the truck arrived. He offered to jump start it. I accepted. He hooked his jumper box to the battery and the same result happened. Blank looks. He then offered to hook it to the batt post on the voltage regulator. Sure. What the hell. Switch on. Contact and the old Go Devil fired up. I revved it a few times, thanked him and watched him disconnect the jump box. The motor immediately died. He tried again. It fired. He disconnected. It died. By now I just knew that I needed a new battery. The driver loaded me up and home we went. I let gravity and momentum carry it into the garage. End of day one.
Yesterday (day 2)morning I went to NAPA and bought a used, serviceable 24F series 12 volt battery, carried it home and installed it. Still nothing. Using my hand-dandy, trusty-dusty old Snap-on test probe I started hunting. “+” post to "-" post. Good. Positive terminal of solenoid to “-“ post on battery. Good. Next in line, the “+” post on the 20AMP slow-blow breaker. UH-OH. Not good. Removed the wire and checked resistance. All kinds of resistance. Replaced that wire with a new 12ga wire.
YAY!  I fired the old girl up, completed the testing and the video on that carb, shut it down, removed it and proceeded with another carb to finish. That done, I mounted the next carb and fired it up. She ran great, but it was getting late (had to feed the daughters critters again) I shut her down with the intention of finishing testing this morning. I entered the garage this morning to find the ammeter needle was bouncing and a clicking sound could be heard. I disconnected the battery figuring I’d ask ya’ll “WTHIWWMJ, over?”. Armed with newly acquired info I went back out to the garage, hooked up the battery and found that it was the first-in-circuit 20amp slow-blow breaker that was clicking. Off. Then on. Then off again at a rate of about an estimated twenty times a minute. I replaced it with a new 20 amp slow blow. Same problem.
Now then, before I let ALL of the smoke out, what are your ideas?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 16:20:55 GMT -5
 That there is some colorful vernacular Scoutski! Professor we gots 2 kinds o'sparks aflyin! Help!!
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 17:40:57 GMT -5
You have a short circuit after the voltmeter, or it wouldn't move, I'll assume it's bouncing to the negative ?....... Only thing on the south side of the voltmeter would be the light switch or the brake light switch (If stock) or an issue in the generator or alt..... A nice big cocktail and perhaps some easy listening Micky Gilly will calm the blood pressure and mind.... Then go out and unhook wires till it quits......
Lee
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 18:09:17 GMT -5
I'd start at the meter, check the mount bracket for shorts to a post, and then head downstream with a mirror and flashlight. Doors closed and no one around. Quietly and carefully. Disconnecting wires from possible units that could short and check it by elimination. if you can get a light in the circuit that indicates the short, and disconnect one lead at a time unitl the light goes out, another good tool. When you find it, send out pre-paid airline tickets and we'll come down to celebrate.  Oilly |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 18:36:52 GMT -5
Talk 'bout a shitty day!!
I'm still willing to bet on a short at the ammeter. It's definitely a solid short, and it's easy to short a wire to the ammeter bracket..... Considering the space behind the dash is not made for any kind of human occupancy...
I've done myself...
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 19:13:51 GMT -5
Captain, you are correct. Bouncing negative. But again the motor ain’t motorin’. Just sitting’. Very well then. Let the exploratory surgery begin in the morning. Just an old 2A. Not that many wires. Yeah. Just keep telling yourself that.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 19:18:53 GMT -5
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Post by athawk11 on May 18, 2016 19:40:23 GMT -5
That's why it was my first thought. My failure was far more dramatic than ScoutPilot's. Third or forth drive ever. Turned the key...boom. Smoke. Entire wire from the ammeter to the starter solenoid disintegrated. Pissed me off. Brand new wire harness. At the time, I was unaware that the ammeter posts must not make contact with the tub. My original ammeter insulators were pretty rough. I had no idea how important they are. Hell, half the stuff on the dash NEEDS to be grounded. FBill...does everyone remember FBill? A great tip from him. Cut short pieces of a Bic pen and used them to insulate the posts from the tub. Worked great. Hawk |
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Post by Haines Garage on May 18, 2016 21:13:26 GMT -5
I told myself that many a time ! Still telling myself that. Let's talk a little more about this post cover business. And yes, I remember FBill very well.
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Post by rudycon on May 18, 2016 21:56:09 GMT -5
What about that regulator problem where the generator tries to become a motor when the engine is not turning?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 22:24:02 GMT -5
What about that regulator problem where the generator tries to become a motor when the engine is not turning? It's a darn good possibility too! Easiest way to check is remove the ARM wire from the regulator and see if the short disappears. |
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Post by athawk11 on May 18, 2016 22:43:51 GMT -5
What about that regulator problem where the generator tries to become a motor when the engine is not turning? Now that's an interesting phenomenon. Does one of the regulator points seize? |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 4:48:25 GMT -5
Wyowillys46 had problems with a bouncing ammeter and charging problems that were intermittent. New voltage regulator, same problem. Ended up, he didn't tighten the wire leads on the ammeter posts enough. Scout will find this problem. As for the screaming beaver, now that was my kind of video. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 4:54:53 GMT -5
What about that regulator problem where the generator tries to become a motor when the engine is not turning? Now that's an interesting phenomenon. Does one of the regulator points seize? The Cut-Out relay (the one with the big contacts and heavy winding) sticks closed. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 5:32:02 GMT -5
Anudder useful tip......
When tracing a solid short, remove the battery cable from the battery and clamp the probe end of a test lamp to the battery post so the lighted handle is standing up in the air easy to see. Then, hook the alligator clip to the batt cable, so the light bulb is in series with the circuit. As long as the short is present the light will be illuminated.
That way your not passing a great amount current during troubleshooting,(keeps the smoke in the wires) and when you disconnect something, it only takes a quick glance to see if the lamp is still lit or not to see if your the right track.
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Post by rudycon on May 19, 2016 9:23:32 GMT -5
Sir hawkridge got it. Stuck cutout points in the relay.
You'll know that might be the problem if the bat-Rey is dead every morning
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 10:27:53 GMT -5
I found the hot lead slightly loose on the headlight switch. I removed from the system both 20amp breakers. Hums along like an old Singer again. I’m even showing a better charge rate on the ammeter. Yes. I’m happy, happy, happy… |
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Post by Bad Muleskinner on May 19, 2016 10:34:22 GMT -5
SCH-WEEEET!!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 14:42:11 GMT -5
Should make the drive to the Black Hills easy for you now.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 17:35:24 GMT -5
If you knew how busy I am and out-of-season for me too!
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SHATPEEFRICKFIRECANTLUCKDUCKUTEROINVERTEDVAGINYHOMOANBATCHBASTAGE! MO-FO! 
I fired the old girl up, completed the testing and the video on that carb, shut it down, removed it and proceeded with another carb to finish. That done, I mounted the next carb and fired it up. She ran great, but it was getting late (had to feed the daughters critters again) I shut her down with the intention of finishing testing this morning. I entered the garage this morning to find the ammeter needle was bouncing and a clicking sound could be heard. I disconnected the battery figuring I’d ask ya’ll “WTHIWWMJ, over?”. Armed with newly acquired info I went back out to the garage, hooked up the battery and found that it was the first-in-circuit 20amp slow-blow breaker that was clicking. Off. Then on. Then off again at a rate of about an estimated twenty times a minute. I replaced it with a new 20 amp slow blow. Same problem. 
That there is some colorful vernacular Scoutski! Professor we gots 2 kinds o'sparks aflyin! Help!!
Oilly
