Today's F-head starter experience.

[Deleted]

I've had a grinding the tooth sound and intermittent starter engagement in my '53 Jeep pickup since I overhauled the engine. The drive looked perfect when I installed it. Got a deal on another off ebay so I jumped into it. The replacement was very nice inside with near new brushes and a rebuild stamp. It needed a solenoid. I pulled apart my old one and immediately noticed that my new one's bendix stuck too far forward in the nose or bell. So I took the other old one apart to figure out where the problem was. Here is what I learned: With the armature out of the case, never turn the bendix outwards on the shaft. There are two plungers inside it that pop into a stop area and won't allow it to return to the park position. The old one did the same thing when I turned it outwards--------duh. You then have to disassemble the bendix which has two circlips. One isn't bad, the inside one is terrible. That's where you find two plungers and springs. They fit up into internal holes and ride in a spiral track. I finally figured out that to put this thing back together, you have to drive out plugs that are in the holes that the springs and plunger go into. You slide it together, install the plunger, then the spring, then the cap. The cap is a press fit and it's a bitch! You then give up and go get a helper because one guy has to hold the unit in place under pressure while the other installs the terrible snap ring that is blind when you release the tension. You have to find it in the first place to get it apart. Puzzle time indeed. Now that things are solved, I also found that even though the bendix looks greasy and functional on the outside, it can be red, rusty and stuck on the inside. That my friends is why my old starter didn't work. So, I fixed it too! Just cleaned it up and re-greased things. Now I turn the key and walla, my Jeep cranks over nicely, quietly, rapidly, and starts normally. You may ask where are the step by step, Haines type pictures? Well everything in a radius of the starter bendix was destroyed in the fight to fix it. Steam, bad words, fallout, and earthquake type damage resulted. John

[Deleted]

Outstanding, you could have bolted it up to the engine and started it, then it would have returned to it's spot. Glad you had success, Now you have a spare, Murphys Law will say you will never need the spare as long as you have one .

Lee

[Deleted]

Outstanding, you could have bolted it up to the engine and started it, then it would have returned to it's spot. Glad you had success, Now you have a spare, Murphys Law will say you will never need the spare as long as you have one .

Lee

[Deleted]

Really? The engine would kick it back hard enough to overcome the springs on the two plungers? It stopped hard as a rock. I couldn't get two pair of pliers to return it. Oh well, I learned taking the bendix apart so it was worth the pain right? Sure works fantastic now. Makes me feel real good not to hear the teeth grinding. Now if it would just stop the snow thing. Got 8 inches last night. IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Had to clean off the satellite dish to say this!

[Deleted]

I'm impressed with a few things...one being your ability to trouble shoot and repair. But that goes without saying! The most impressive thing is that you learned something new...and got to once again enjoy that euphoria that follows completing a successful repair!

I'm thankful I do not have one of those starters. My extra pair of hands aren't quite old enough to help, yet.

[Deleted]

Moose, there are not too many mechanics that are willing to work on old antique rusty stuff to try and save money. They are R&R guys. Remove and replace. I realize they have to make a living, and this type work isn't their cup of tea. So, to be a Jeep guy, you need to do your own work, or own a bank. Pulled the head on "Herm" my current M38 project today. The engine was stuck when I bought it at a auction. I figured since it ran in '04 and had a state park sticker, it was most likely stuck rings. Well yep, stuck rings, but the surprise was a darn crack in plain sight running clear into the valve pocket. What a bummer. The engine was .040 over. Also, one of the pistons front arrow mark was turned about 25 degrees from the others. I hope that doesn't mean the rod is toast. I dug out a extra block I had and it was already .060 over. 125.00 per hole to sleeve them. Ouch. In desperation, I pulled the head on my junker engine that was laying in the back of my '53 Jeep pickup when I bought him. What a terrible job. All the studs were rusty and seized. Hammers, wedges, wood blocks , screwdrivers, prybars, and anything else to do the job was laying in a circle around the grease pile. After 2 hours and lots of bad venting going on, I laid a 3/8 thick flat strap on the edge of the raised head and beat it off while flopping the complete engine side to side. I won. Amazingly, I didn't gouge or break things. The block and head will need surfacing anyway. Guess what!!!!!!!!!! .020 over. I'm going to try and use it. Hopefully, no fatal cracks show up. The bores are rusty, but not terrible. I'll have to pound the pistons out after removing the crank. The M38 stuff bolted to Herm's engine will transfer to the new block when I'm done at the machine shop. I always build my own engines. This way I know everything is in order and I won't have to go back. Buying someones overhauled engine usually ends up in disaster. That said, Jeeps have a way of not letting you get off easy. It takes time to iron out the quirks they throw at you. You're not done until the fat lady,----------I mean go devil, sings! john

[Deleted]

john I've got a grind from time to time on my starter feels like it isn't catching correctly, it came with the engine and was installed when i got it so i never looked at the tooth count on it or the fly wheel. i was told the grind could just be the bendix is going. that all being said it is a manual operated one as the earlier trucks have.

[Deleted]

Schimmster, some bendixs have a centrifugal locker that has rollers in tracks that spin out and lock the bendix. They are inside a tin covered area right behind the teeth. These can go bad. They sound just like grinding teeth. They are slipping and not locking. Went through this with another starter. Some bendixs are obsolete and hard to find. ebay to the rescue huh? John

[Deleted]

john that may be it, when this happens my engine spins but not quickly it feels like it missed the teeth almost and once it starts i almost have to feel it work properly but i think your right. when my truck goes MIA after this summer i will pull the starter and fix this problem or maybe get a new starter build it and swap them.

[Deleted]

Luke, pull your current starter. There is a bell shaped tip to your bendix with the teeth at the front. At the bottom of the bell, there is a wide snap ring. A small screwdriver will remove it, and the bell, and leave the rest. Simply lube up this area. Then put the bell back on. That part is easy. That's where all the problem on mine was. It was dry and rust tinged while the outside looked lubed up fine. The bendix was not spinning up into the ring gear. I had to play with the key listening to the engagement until it caught. Don't buy another starter until you check it out. Report back. I'll grade your proficiency! Don't forget to time the event or no grade will be posted to your account! John

[athawk11]

I had a bad day in the garage. I'm not getting any oil pressure reading on Whitey. I've done everything I'm suppose to do, but it just won't pressurize. SO....I stepped backed and decided to mess with something else.

During this oil pressure process, I discovered an issue with my starter. The same issue Oilleaker was having. Note...this Willys has a CJ3B/CJ5 Clutch, Pressure Plate, Bell Housing and starter. Yep, they all bolt up to an L-134.

I noticed the gear would not go back in before I bolted it on, but I believed Lee when he said that once I applied power to the starter, it would back out on its own. Mine didn't. When I hand cranked the engine, I could hear the starter racheting. I knew then, that I had to pull it and fight the fight that Oilleaker described.

First off, I wasn't sure if I was messing with the same type of starter. I couldn't find how this freakin' thing was held together. If OL didn't fight this fight, then post about it, I would have probably just started looking for a new starter. I came back in, re-read his post, then went back out to look for snap rings. I couldn't see them, so I started to think this must be a different style starter. I spotted a roll pin, so I desided to knock it out. This allowed the starter drive to separate from the armature shaft. I pulled it off, and started to take a closer look at this thing.

Wa-La, found the first large snap ring. Seriously...how in the H^&*% did this make sense to the designer??? You couldn't have hidden this better. This came off fairly easy. This freed the cap and large spring.

Then I studied what was left. There had to be another snap ring holding the slider assembly together. AHHHH, there it is, but how in the H&*^* am I suppose to get at it? It was inset and hiding behind the cap that had a spring behind it. The gap at the ends of the snap ring was almost non-existent. I eventually got between the ends of the ring and began to pry it off. All of the sudden, booooinnng!! It flew across the garage, and I didn't see where it landed. I just heard a couple impacts off of roof joists. My heart sunk. There was next to no way I would ever find it.

The next hour was spent searching and cleaning up the garage. And then, I saw it. Sitting in an oil drain pan.

I turned my attentions back to the starter gearing and found the plunger and spring that OL described. I popped them out, slid the pop up assembly back down to the base, then reassembled what I could. Time for the snap rings. As God is my witness, I was ready to throw the whole thing in the trash and buy a new starter, but then a little voice spoke to me. "If Oilleaker can get these snap rings back in, I can too!!!" It didn't happen quickly. It didn't happen without using every curse word I know...numerous times...in various interesting groupings. But I did finally get it back together and functioning correctly.

So...a big thanks to Oilleaker for fighting this fight, then posting about it.

Have a great night!!

Tim

[Haines Garage]

Now that is just about perfect...And its OK to curse a little here Sir Hawkridge.. don't think the kids are watching. This is exactly why we do the forum thing. Things learned, things shared. There is a solution to every problem. NO ONE KNOWS THEM ALL! I have been educated here as well. So a big thanks to Sir John Of The Black Hills....You are the Man of the evening!

[Deleted]

I never tried it on a Willys, mine nor my fathers has this style of bendix, but the new style starter bendix for N series Ford tractors operates the same way, it has two plungers that lock the drive gear out until the engine picks up a little speed to prevent premature disengagement. If for some reason the gear is extended for some reason during installation, just hold the gear up to a wire brush wheel mounted on a grinder so the wire wheel spins it in the ratcheting direction, it will typically spin it fast enough so centrifugal force will disengage the plungers (like the engine started) and the drive gear will return to its park position. Just an idea....Disclaimer: Ideas given by a dumbass country boy under the age of 35 are to used with extreme caution

Moose, your head pulling experience sounds alike lot some of mine!!

Tim, I hope your oil pressure problem is a easy fix!

Gary C.

[Deleted]

Sir Hawkridge! We are now Bendix brothers. That small snap ring is a real peckeroid to get back in. When you are sweating and bloody, and have said every bad thing you can think of, They say you have had a religious experience! Now, moving on, your oil pressure absence is serious. You need to prime the system before you go any farther. Pull the oil pump, spin it in a can of fresh oil and expel any air. Re-install it. Then remove the oil feed line that runs from the block behind the fuel pump up at the connection going into the filter. Take a hand pump oil can and pump a full can back down the hose. This fills the side gallery and back down to the oil pump. You should have oil pressure now when you spin the engine over with the plugs out. Report back. I leave no knights on the battle field. Jeep brothers you know! John

[Deleted]

Mar 30, 2014 0:46:30 GMT -5 @gmcjr said:

I never tried it on a Willys, mine nor my fathers has this style of bendix, but the new style starter bendix for N series Ford tractors operates the same way, it has two plungers that lock the drive gear out until the engine picks up a little speed to prevent premature disengagement. If for some reason the gear is extended for some reason during installation, just hold the gear up to a wire brush wheel mounted on a grinder so the wire wheel spins it in the ratcheting direction, it will typically spin it fast enough so centrifugal force will disengage the plungers (like the engine started) and the drive gear will return to its park position. Just an idea....Disclaimer: Ideas given by a dumbass country boy under the age of 35 are to used with extreme caution

Moose, your head pulling experience sounds alike lot some of mine!!

Tim, I hope your oil pressure problem is a easy fix!

Gary C.

BINGO, this is it!, the wire wheel, I was going to post this as well. Like I said before is you bolted it to the engine and start it, it will return to its spot, when the engine fires it zings the bendix and sends it home.

Lee