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Post by Haines Garage on Jan 23, 2014 22:37:17 GMT -5
I see a lot of talk on all the Flat Fender Sites...Particularly one in mind. It confuses me why folks love to go talk on the websites, only to be smacked down...talking about get a Manual, and READ IT. Same retards are online answering every technical question that gets asked. Go Figure...It must be the Jeep Guru thing..    ... So, lets talk about the Manual.. Here is what I own, and have READ...  In my limited build knowledge, I have found many "holes" in all of these manuals...   The biggest offender, being the most popular. So I am asking you Manual Experts...What am I missing... Do I need another? Would rather hear from a PERSON whom has actually done the work, actually restored a Jeep. EVERY BOLT, EVERY PIECE... HMMMMMM...   |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 5:55:01 GMT -5
PERSONALLY I WOULD THROW THAT MOSES LUDEL BOOK OUT !! LOTS OF WRONGS IN IT AND ONLY HALF OF WHAT A PERSON NEEDS TO KNOW..
KEEP THE OTHER 3 FIND OUT WHAT YOUR DOINGIN THE 3 BOOKS YOU KEPT READ WHAT EACH OF THEM SAY TO DO AND 2 OUT OF 3 WILL WORK JUST FINE FOR YOU.
HELL MAN YOUR DOING A FANTASTIC JOB ALREADY USING YOUR COMMON SENSE AND AT LEAST YOUR NOT AFRAID TO ASK A QUESTION IF YOU GET STUCK ON SOMETHING
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Post by Ryan_M on Jan 24, 2014 9:16:53 GMT -5
Almost everyone seems to love the Moses Ludel book. I have it and use it every once in a very great while for a random pic or a different perspective when I'm stuck on something....but I really don't like it. It's not very thorough and there's too much emphasis on upgrades and other non-stock variations. I have the lower left service manual in your picture and a web browser open to half a dozen different forums at any one time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 18:35:43 GMT -5
I have the top two, or I had the top two, I seem to have misplaced the Chiltons, and I liked that one the best!, I have some old trade manuals from the time (40's-50's) I look at, but for the most part I will stand by hillbilly, common sense goes a long way, holes in the manuals, yes there are. My gripe with most forums (not only Jeep) is the guy that will not buy a manual after he has spent several thousand dollars on a vehicle, like another $50 is going to break the bank, but then goes online and requests the basic info available on most forums but is to lazy to look for it!. Or buys a Solex caburator from Nigeria on E-Bay, for twice the going rate, installs it and it runs like crap, and then goes on to say the Carters are a POS, Yet all kinds of problems with the Solex, and in the end could have had the Carter professionally rebult lots cheaper. It will never end  Lee |
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Post by Haines Garage on Jan 24, 2014 20:44:58 GMT -5
i agree CAPTAIN LEEMEISTER  , on you comments about the guys not buying one period...what happened to reading, and pictures....and my favorite, schematics. Her is what happened...The Modern age, and the Internet... Double edged sword... Makes people not think for themselves... But Connects all of us "ole School Guys...Go figure..  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 7:30:26 GMT -5
I've got some of the original military manuals for both the WC and the jeeps that I'll use for displays, but I also have (very used!) reproduction copies and online downloaded/printed copies that I've dog-eared and grease/oil stained the pages from just about every garage adventure! I also keep a copy in the vehicle, too...the trouble shooting sections are priceless to me.
Thank goodness I can comprehend army speak.
Bo!
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Post by athawk11 on Jan 25, 2014 10:36:04 GMT -5
‘Old School’ guys that proclaim, “You do have the manual, don’t you??. If you own a Willys, you MUST own the manual.”
With all do respect to these gentlemen, this is simply not true. Not the hard copy.
I know these guys have 10 times the experience I have with Willys Jeeps and engines, but thanks to the great Willys forums, and the world wide web, there is a thousand times more information sitting on my desk, than could possibly fit in the official manual.
Search: 'Rebuild a L-134 Engine'. Nearly 10,000,000 pieces of information will be immediately available for you to wade through.
Add to that, the personal experiences of the 1000s of Willys enthusiasts at the HG, 2A, 3A, 3B, 503, WillysMJeeps, page. A manual just can’t tell me that.
That said, I own the Moses Manual.
I have a copy of the ‘Universal Service Manual’. All 281 pages of it…stored on my computer in a PDF file format.
I have the Technical Manual, TM 9-1804A, M38 Engine and Clutch Manual…stored on my computer in PDF format.
I have numerous ‘Parts Lists’ manuals…stored in PDF files on my computer.
Most of this acquired from the WWW.
There you have it.
I suppose that when I’m 80 years old, I’ll be insisting the younger guys should have the PDF of the service manual if they intend on owning a Willys!!! They will call me old school because they can simply pull up the manual on their ‘Google Glass’.
And by the way, if anyone wants a copy of the items I've listed above, PM me with your email and I'll send you a copy.
Tim
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Post by Haines Garage on Jan 25, 2014 20:42:07 GMT -5
Point Taken My Good Friend..and you are right! However I still love the paper bound articles.. I guess it is just me. And you are also right about guys that share... Like I said...Manuals one thing, guys that have done it is a complete other I am going to be very BOLD now. When a member of a Forum, wherever it may be, asks a serious question, Don't belittle him by saying...Get a Manual. That just PISSES ME OFF! Especially when it happens to be one of my "Best Buds" Once again Sir Hawkridge, I have seen you work in person, and I am most Impressed! Send me what you have in an Email.. Southcarolinaflatfenderclub@comcast.net Ant information I can get from my trusted sources should be FANTASTIC! |
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Post by Haines Garage on Jan 25, 2014 20:44:10 GMT -5
Captain Leemeister, If you cannot fing that particular Chiltons, I will be happy to send you mine...Who Loves You Baby |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 1:47:29 GMT -5
Two comments, 1) Tim, Hard copy or E copy is the same, and you have them, and have spent time finding them, have studied them as well. do not take my comments the wrong way (not that you did). You are correct, the info is there E-copy wise, but there are still people who are unwilling to look for anything or study anything and demand instant information and expect instant gratification in the repair process, unfortunately it does not work that way, one must understand mechanical things to be able to troubleshoot them, this leads too often to common repeat questions on very common topics, that with a small effort could be avoided. Yes we all ask questions, give advise, and that's fine, and how we share experience, but how many times have we seen "what kind of oil goes in the transmission", the answer is on every Jeep forum I have looked at and in every manual as well, simply look! 2) Haines, thanks but keep the chiltons, mine had sentimental value, as I purchased it at a bookstore in Duluth MN, at age 12, had lots of notes scribbled in it, and the cover was gone, just not the same. Lee |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 10:04:22 GMT -5
My input is that multiple manuals, civilian and military are good. Some publications like All American Wonder have excellent sections reprinted on things like the WO Carter carburetor. When I get stuck, I go to my friends on all three chat sites. They have downloads available on almost anything. Vendors too, will freely give you advice and technical experience. I read other peoples problems and allot of schematics on wiring, plumbing, transmission, engines pop up, free for the downloading a printing. My printed manuals have these tidbits stuffed inside them. The information out there is unbelievable. You run into guys needing something you have laying around. They in turn have something you need. What a fun hobby huh? John
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Post by athawk11 on Jan 26, 2014 10:18:42 GMT -5
Sir Lee,
My comments were not directed at you. Not in the least. They are directed at the folks that tend to open there reply with a condescending tone. They give you the one sentence answer..."It's in the manual."
You, on the other hand, know the manual in and out, but will still try to give a 'helpful' answer to an inquiry. That is the point I was trying to make.
My intial frustration is with a fellow that answered my inquiry about .060 pistons, over at the 2A page. He appears to have no ability to self regulate his replies. He seems to prefer making people feel stupid. Problem is, he is the one that looks a little dense. The manual doesn't discuss a .060 piston tolerance, thus my inquiry.
Besides, sharing our personal experiences, and the failures of a Bubba PO, is always kind of fun. It gives everyone a chance to marvel at the strange choices these POs have made.
Tim
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 12:26:55 GMT -5
Tim, All understood!, I did not take it as directed to me , I will always give advise if asked, what I was getting at is the repetitive clutter on forums from asking the same questions over and over again, this in time makes a search take longer as you need to sift through layers of the same thing!, LOL, it will never change, a sign of the times I guess  , As of yesterday I have the lower left manual loaded on my computer thank's to Art C, as stated by Art, you can print the pages you need and take to the shop, not getting your manual dirty, I like that! Lee |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 12:38:10 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but I have told people to buy a manual. Maybe they took it wrong, but you need to see pictures and read about it, before you can digest the help of fellow members. I do not like hearing the "do a Search response" with no help following the comment. New guys need our patience and would like to be your friend so saying the manual or search thing is OK, but follow it up with a polite helpful answer. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar is true. By the way, I have a couple engines that are .060 over and run fine with no issues. John
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Post by Haines Garage on Jan 26, 2014 21:23:40 GMT -5
YEAH!! BUY A MANUAL!... And Then talk with the guys whom have done it!! I think sometimes that the details get LOST As for the folks posting down to my Boys......Well  Look out.. |
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Post by Haines Garage on Feb 5, 2014 23:23:43 GMT -5
I am going to say it loud!!!!...THE MANUALS OUT THERE SUCK!! I have spent more time trying to figure out details in all of my FANTASTIC manuals.. Also the web sites...They SUCK too...Even the Great Sean of the 2a pages...all Bullshit...Do a step by step, show the basics, simple things like where the fasteners go... Could I do it better,,,Hell Yes..And I will.... Try Googling or searching how to install frame brake lines... Oh I know,,,Thats easy... Then buy some from the Great suppliers with NO INSTRUCTION.... I have some very heavy hitters on my team, let me rile them up...LOOK OUT! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 11:44:44 GMT -5
OK, instead of READ the manual... how about TAKE SOME PICTURES when you take it apart?? (Not saying you personally, Scott.)
I have heard complaints about the brake line kits myself, won't buy any as I would rather bend and flare my own to fit my jeep. I don't know how they can ship them without tweaking them anyhow.
All you really have to know, as that Chilton's manual is famous for.. Reassembly is reverse of disassembly. (yeah right..lol. ) wink wink.
I won't go quite as far as you did on ALL manuals being no good , but quite often people offer me Chilton's manuals at swap meets and flea markets when I ask for jeep stuff.. and I don't want them. They are good for weighing down that stack of old jeep ads you need to unwrinkle, but that is about it in many cases. They spend more time showing you how to paint a dented fender on some random car than they do on anything else. I'm not talking about the old heavy multi make ones, but the new paperback ones aren't that good. Heck, even the factory manual has mistakes. Old Motor's manuals designed for the trade are pretty cool. They are more effective on that stack of ads, too.
If you want some fun try writing a how to that covers the flatfender...then go back to it a month later and see all the mistakes and things you still didn't cover. If anyone wrote a how to rebuild your jeep book it would take 500 pages and still miss some details. Then it would be only good for the year and model you built.
That's why we have FAQ and how to sections that we can edit....lol.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2014 7:42:58 GMT -5
I did mine the stupid smart way! Save the original lines that you take off. You can tell if it's factory or bubba in a hurry. Then simply copy them with the new lines, make a few bends to help get them in, and you're done. It does help to have a couple of donor Jeeps to see what's original and what's not. I've never got one done without a leak because it needed more tightening. If you are concours paint conscious, use silicone Dot 5. John
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...
, on you comments about the guys not buying one period...what happened to reading, and pictures....and my favorite, schematics.
, As of yesterday I have the lower left manual loaded on my computer thank's to Art C, as stated by Art, you can print the pages you need and take to the shop, not getting your manual dirty, I like that! 