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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 2:12:15 GMT -5
This sux..........while we was traveling in the FCT, I noticed my little desert tan willys wasn't running as good as the rest of the crowd. Returning home, did some checking, had slightly low compression on a couple of cylinders due to leaky valves, so I replaced the valve guides (for some reason didn't get replaced when I had the block machined 8 years ago) and hand lapped the valves.... It Brought the ole girl back to life...........until Thursday........then this happened........ Broken rings on the number four cylinder. Cylinder walls are not scored, does anybody have any ideas what might have caused it?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 10:38:34 GMT -5
Interesting, broken rings on a well wore 134 is not uncommon, but not on an 8yo rebuild. my thoughts, At assembly time 8 years back, (assumeing it was bored and new pistons) were the ring end gaps checked in the cyls at assembly time. I have been told by two different machineist's that it is not uncommon to find mismatched ringsets in a box of sets,or bearings, and were the ring to piston clearance checked as well. In todays world of no care for quality we cannot assume the folks packaging the parts are putting the right parts in the kit. Looking at your picture, I see you are not running a fan shrowd, my experience with a L-134 is that cyls 3and 4 typically run 10 degrees hotter than 1-2, that being said I do not believe your problem was caused by heat, as there was NO scoreing of the cyl walls, still I would install a shrowd it does make a big difference, I have spent much time with a heat gun checking temps on these engines and the shrowd matters. Lastly, you may have cracked the rings on assembly, easily done and I have done this, it happens, one crack at assembly will turn into many after the engine has some time on it. HTH, good luck with the repairs, Lee  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 10, 2013 22:05:39 GMT -5
I agree with Lee on this one.... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 22:28:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies, the engine was bored over .060 and had a bad wrist pin knock when I first tore it down 8 yrs ago. The block was then sleeved back to standard bore, and the bores fitted to new pistons (perfect circle, I believe) by the machine shop, local one with a great reputation. I installed the rings (Perfect circle Part# 5007 STD, plain cast iron if I remember ) gaps and ring to piston clearence checked and withing spec. I have always had good luck with Perfect Circle rings in the past, but I very well couldve over bent them upon installation.
The engine runs from 160 to 210, I have a bottom mount radiator setting on the garage floor that I hope to have repaired soon, it has shroud. Im less than impressed with the crown radiator that is in it now.
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 13, 2013 18:24:13 GMT -5
Any updates as of tonight?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2013 21:17:59 GMT -5
Any updates as of tonight? I wish there was, but with my work schedule, it'll probably be around thanksgiving before I work on it again. I'm at least hoping to take it on a few camping/ bird hunting excursions after the first of the year.  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Nov 14, 2013 22:43:41 GMT -5
Keep us posted....I am most interested in your finds, and repair posts.
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Post by athawk11 on Nov 17, 2013 9:19:54 GMT -5
I have been watching your challenge here. Any updates on the repairs? Any conclusions on why?
Tim
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 20:32:36 GMT -5
I have been watching your challenge here. Any updates on the repairs? Any conclusions on why? Tim Thanks for the interest! I'm hoping I'll get some time off to work on it next week... , The general opinon is that the back cylinder was running hotter than the rest, and possibly a bad set of rings, its a good of guess as anything....it is frusrating for sure, at least it didnt score the cylinder wall!!! So far my plan is to de-glaze the cylinders, replace all the rings and to reuse the rod bearings, they only have about 10,000 miles on them, but they are going to be plasti-guaged just to be sure, and to hopefully repair and install the bottom mount radiator (it has a few leaks, needs to have a acid bath and be rodded out) that was in the jeep when i bought it, as it has a shroud, actually fits and a has larger coolant capacity. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 2:56:07 GMT -5
Small update, finally had a break to work on the willys again, after removing the rest of the pistons, number 1 and 2 also has broken rings  .  Still don't really know why..... Finally got it warm in my little garage, us Texans ain't built for this cold stuff...  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 9:55:44 GMT -5
MHO, All looks to good and clean for a mechanical failure, the rings most likely cracked upon installation into the cylinders, It has happened to me, one must use a quality ring compressor to do this, not to say you did not, but again it happens. The good news is if you have no scuffing of the cylinder walls a simple honeing and a fitting of new rings, you will be back on the road. Lee |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2013 23:39:56 GMT -5
Update: what started as a simple valve job, has turned into a in-frame engine rebuild.  Rings where installed last week. The ring gaps, groove to ring clearence where within spec. Bores deglazed real good and where still round, but upon installation one of the rod bearings looked real iffy, so I ordered a new set when I was in town today..... Now I sit on my lard butt, setting the valves again and thinking.......I started rebuilding small engines when I was twelve for spending money. When I was high school,(I didn't care for football) me and buddy worked on the high school crowd cars and ran the local dirt tracks in a Dodge magnum, then a old Nova. He drove, I wrenched, plus my '93 Z71 was a much more reliable tow vehicle than his 72 chevy C-10. We didn't have money, so we became quite adept at making junk run. Such as putting mopar 360 rings in a 318 after several hours grinding and filing. Needed a tire? Just drove the county roads until we found one in a ditch, threw in a tube and went racing  Since, I've put together tractors and a lot of other pickups, jeeps, Toyotas, and suzukis that are still running, but I guess if something is going to give me fits, it might as well be my little favorite willys engine!!!  . But I digress.... Gotta get running soon, I promised my dog some late season quail hunting....she's gonna be mad if we don't!!!! |
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Post by Haines Garage on Dec 28, 2013 15:35:12 GMT -5
Gary, I am a little confused...Frame Rebuild, or engine rebuild?? I read it twice. How did the hunting day go???
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2013 16:44:57 GMT -5
Sorry, I meant in-frame engine rebuild Typing on a I phone sux..... Haven't been bird hunting/camping yet, the only place I really have to go that's close, (two hours by willys) is the Caddo grass lands in the next county, I'm waiting for deer season to end Jan 5, too many idiots with .30-06's. Hell, most of the locals won't even drive through it during rifle season, but once it closes, you can pretty much have to whole place to your self, especially in the winter. Heres a picture I took when I was there doing a little crappie fishing last spring..  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Dec 28, 2013 21:56:17 GMT -5
Ok, I got it straight
Very cool camping photo.
I have a Black Dog that looks very similar to the one in your pic.
Gary, sounds like you have some experience with engines. Please post your build here.
It helps all of us out. Seems we all fight the same battle.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 9:54:19 GMT -5
Ok, I got it straight Very cool camping photo. I have a Black Dog that looks very similar to the one in your pic. Gary, sounds like you have some experience with engines. Please post your build here. It helps all of us out. Seems we all fight the same battle. Howdy!!! Sorry for the delayed response! Awhile back, I ordered new Perfect Circle bearings from my local NAPA feller, but when they arrived, they all different sizes, and not one of them was the size I needed!!  So, after another week, the right size bearings arrived. I finally was able to get her back together, took it on a nice easy drive (30 mile round trip) yesterday for the first time. What a difference! Still don't really know what caused to the ring failure, but I'm sure the bearing issue was my fault. When I replaced the rings, the inserts that had issues are the ones that fell out when I pulled the pistons. Although, I knew better, I didn't make sure the surface on the bearing cap, rod, and the back of the bearing was absolutely free of oil or greasy fingerprints, and installed nice and square. A lesson from the dirt track days, it doesn't take much of anything behind a insert to reduce the oil clearance, next thing you know, you have a spun or galled bearing. Sorry Scott, I was going to take pictures, but trying to manipulate my phone with greasy hands while laying on my back was really trying my patience, so I gave up. As for the doggie, That's Cookie in the picture, she is a one year old Lab/Weimaraner mix, that loves Jeep rides! |
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Post by Haines Garage on Jan 18, 2014 0:11:19 GMT -5
Gary....Thanks for posting the update, glad you are back on the road!
Seems the ring thing is a big deal these days...Thanks for sharing.
There are a few shots of my pup in the Haines Garage Build Thread...May May is her name, Her and Cookie could be sisters!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 2:29:21 GMT -5
Forgot to say THANKS for y'all's interest and advice!
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Post by Haines Garage on Jan 19, 2014 21:48:46 GMT -5
Thank You Gary For keeping us posted...
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Rings where installed last week. The ring gaps, groove to ring clearence where within spec. Bores deglazed real good and where still round, but upon installation one of the rod bearings looked real iffy, so I ordered a new set when I was in town today..... 
. But I digress....
So, after another week, the right size bearings arrived. I finally was able to get her back together, took it on a nice easy drive (30 mile round trip) yesterday for the first time. What a difference!