Lucille blows her top!

[Deleted]

I picked him up in Utah but yep you're prolly right!

Couldnt help but notice bacon led a landslide victory at the polls!

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[jeffwho]

I took a bunch of pictures of the head and block but haven't posted them yet. I put one (maybe more) on FB but didn't get the rest off my phone yet. I will.

Short story long, here are answers to several questions.
The oil was indeed "milkshakey", as a matter of fact I took a pic and I could see through it draining. Once the oil started draining, it of course was very dark and smelled terrible.
Drained all coolant (broke the petcock on the radiator, durn, so pulled it) and got to wrenching. I have several things to fix, one being the radiator inlet and outlet necks, as well as a pinhole in the oil filler tube I just slapped some Billy Mays Mighty Putty on to get her running. No better time like now, when she's down for the count anyway. I was just about to remove the last three bolts on the head when the BoMobile motored up. It took some coaxing but we got the head off and found the issue. There was a rupture in the gasket between 3-4, and there is a fair amount of scraping and cleaning that must be done. One of the most interesting things I saw (and don't know what it means..) is that cylinders 1-2 were sooty and gross, and the head matched above, whereas cylinders 3-4 were clean as a whistle, same as head above. I don't know if that is a result of the failed gasket, or a symptom of another issue. Moosey suggested that the very clean appearance was from the "steam cleaning" they took when the two mixed ... makes sense even to me. The two "charred" valves could be from a rich mixture, and possibly all of them looked like that before the rupture - guessing, but just trying to make sense of things. What was Pretty cool we found marking on one valve dating it to 1940. Pistons are clearly marked .060 but nothing else looked like it was damaged. Well, that's not true really - there is a small crack in the top of the block straddling a bolt hole, but doesn't look like its going to be a problem because it's not in the cylinder wall. At any rate, I am pretty proud of myself - not sure I'd ever seen the inside of an engine before, certainly got a lesson on how it works, and I sure haven't ever successfully done that much work on one. I figured I better quit while I was ahead.

Anyway eventually I will post pictures somewhere, as I will be home with the boss as she recovers from surgery and should have time to work on the engine. Thanks for all the input and guidance, glad to know there is such a knowledgable pool of resources willing to share their expertise with a n00b like me.

[Deleted]

Fine progress!

[Deleted]

Glad to hear you've found the problem and are taking care of it along with a few other things!
Best wishes to the Missus as well!

[Deleted]

Moooosey is Correct!, the cylinders that were exposed to coolant will be clean. Back in the old days when I was a kid, it was common to trickle water into an open carburator on a hot engine, to remove carbon deposits in the combustion chambers..... Unhea d of nowadays, LOL

[Deleted]

No No my friends, it was the HBR's. The ones that killed grass if spilled that defiled him. Back to topic, Jeffy, White smoke = water, Blue smoke = oil, black smoke = gas. Sounds like you are describing water. Compression check, PCV valve check, look for white goo in the oil filler tube. a crack or water that gets into the oil will make it milky looking. Over time water settles to the bottom of the pan and will come out first at the drain plug. If you miss like crazy when it first starts, your plugs are fouled. Lots of water vapor in the exhaust is also not good. Causes are: blown headgasket, crack into a combustion chamber set of valves, plugged PCV valve. I'd pull the spark plugs and take a look. If you see rust, you got water. Do not let it go. Water damages and sticks things. Look carefully between the head studs and the valves. Contrary to what I've read, you can definately see cracks. Obviously after you pull the head. Heads too can crack. Magnafluxing is the best tool to look for cracks. Sometimes you can spray brake clean, and then a quick wipe off and look. Cracks stay wet. I've also had soft plugs in the block side leak down to the point where the oil fill tube enters the crankcase. No shit!!!!!! It entered right there. Report back with findings. That's an order. Signed, "The general"

[jeffwho]

Confirmed: billowy white smoke, like clouds on a Dakota afternoon in fancy pics. Very clear fluid from oil pan at first, then progressively darker but milky-ish and in the pan was easy to discern that it wasn't only oil, kinda like how oil mixed with water looks. All plugs were definitely fouled, two had some rust, and I reckon that looking back I should have checked them well before now .. not that it would have prevented the gasket rupture. Jeep was missing on start, but I attributed that to the screwy loose distributor. Watch out guys, I might actually be learning here..... Moosey isolated one crack in the block directly above the waterjacket but it spans one bolthole and NOT close to any cylinder wall, so hope that will be OK. I even thought about the possibility of "cheating" that bolt when re-torquing the head just to keep the strain off that crack. I'll ask advice on that later, closer to time to put her back together. Brake cleaner cleaning will ne later today, will keep eye out for any more cracks other than indicated here.
Once I get my wife home I'll start at it, once she's tied down ... apparently she'll be cracked up good, and knowing her will want to go dancing about with a post-op foot. Wish me luck, last time she was on pain meds she was a belligerent patient!

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2015 18:54:04 GMT -5 @lee said:

Moooosey is Correct!, the cylinders that were exposed to coolant will be clean.

BOOM! What? The Cap'n and the Billy Goat Kidd agreeing?! Incredible! Times are a-changing folks! Time to drive across the Ravenel Bridge and the alliance will be solidified.

[Deleted]

I'm all for it, but you need to get Lucille up and running and make it a convoy!

[Haines Garage]

Dec 8, 2015 10:29:57 GMT -5 @lee said:

I'm all for it, but you need to get Lucille up and running and make it a convoy!

This will happen....someday.

[jeffwho]

Me an Moosey can convoy to HG, then onward to pickup Pat and Arch and get Mike, Steve, Gene and Whammer in the mix ... WOW.
Throw in Weesie and we could really get some nonsense brewin!

[jeffwho]

Had a good amount of time atween Ol' Sleepy ringing the bell to work in the garage. Got the block, valves, pistons and cylinder walls cleaned up best as I could (or dared... fine line), oil pan removed and cleaned out (sent the F-script pic to HG, LOL) and a few other things done that I'd been either meaning to do or never noticed. [Glad Moosey never called me on 'em.] Found a stamp in the old head gasket: "VR Canada 1023-K" that I'll look up later, but it sure smelled like Elsinore and Bacon! MMMMMMM. Scraped all the gasket detritus and 47 gallons of Permatex off the bottom of the block and the oil pan, cleaned up a bunch of stuff and now I am sitting back thinking "WHAT HAVE I DONE!?" Still lots more to go. I've got to find someone who can braise radiators, couple of areas of the surrounding lips are bent up on the oil pan, so I get to use my Pap's anvil. I've got to clean the block up bigtime and still get the gaskets and a few other things ordered. Oh, found another crack in the block too. OOOOF. Matches the criterion that it's spanning a bolthole above the water jacket, and not in or near a cylinder wall. I'm definitely taking my time, trying to make sure I get it apart right. I have lots of pictures, just haven't got them off my phone, and I will certainly post them - especially the ones showing the cracks.

Couple questions:
1. Is it advisable to use any type of rust remover to flush out the block? You may recall that months ago I mentioned that an oil-based substance was added to my cooling system and though I've tried to flush it using the "superdouche" concoction, it is still quite rusty-looking down in there. I have used Evaporust before, and thought if it's not harmful to do so, I could just fill it up, let it soak, and then open up the block draincock and drain out as much as I can. I'm super paranoid about getting anything in the cylinders though, so would be happy to just leave it alone if it's best to not mess with it.
2. Bobo mentioned something about "douching out" the inside engine parts too - the cylinders, bearings, etc. I did pour copious amounts of brake cleaner in each cylinder and then used my F-crank to cycle them a few times, cleaning extra up as they came up. I did this a couple times until the overflow was relatively clean. Anyone got more advice on how to not miss parts that need TLC while this is all ripped apart? Is it necessary to clean all the oil completely off the crank?
3. OK last one. Pertaining to the head: I looked at it more closely today, and it looks like a lot of the smaller coolant holes are plugged/fouled. I started thinking about it being best idea to NOT scrape all that muck and goo so it goes INTO the head .. guess if I did I could just spray water in to flush out all the carp unless that's a bad idea. Just wanted to ask someone besides me!

I started thinking today that it would be a good time to pull the engine, do a paint job and do a thorough check of the transmission and polish my brass temp probe, but believe it or not I countered with "Nah man, F-script that, I got to see how she runs and sounds after this overhaul". How's that sound Cap'n!?

[Deleted]

You might as well take the leap and pull the engine and do it right. WW2 blocks were notoriously thin, so just pressure wash the block and head to remove the rust the best you can. Eatting the rust with acid may open up bad things. The cracks should be drilled and pinned at a machine shop. The cracks that are headed for the cylinders or valves. They may have contributed to your blown head gasket. My GPW has had this done and they are holding great. If the machine shops balks at doing the pinning, find another one. If your engine is already bored out 60 over, you would need to sleeve it. I think you said it's non matching. Maybe find a better block. Ryan just had one. If you do it right now, you won't have to go back again and again for re-occuring problems. A good running engine is a pleasure. Having a weak, failing engine makes your quality of Jeep time poor. You can follow Haine's engine rebuild thread. His early chain drive engine is the same thing. We'll all be here to help you spend money. Oilly

[rudycon]

I dunno man. Multiple cracks in the block? I think you are going to have to pull the engine and send the block out for repairs.

Send the head with it. Have them both boiled out before the machine shop starts work. Bring a co-signer for the loan to have all this machine work done.

Rust isn't very strong or water proof. I don't think removing it isn't going to make the block any worse than it already is, but let's manage your expectations here. It is iron. With water, and plenty of heat too. it is going to be rusty red inside.


option 2: Down and dirty re-try and run it while you locate a better block. With both #3 and #4 jugs steam cleaned, I'm guessing head gasket failure.

I can't imagine that motor came with a Canadian head gasket. There is a reason someone has been in there before. Maybe for the same problem. I would have the head decked and flattened out to "supersonic" thickness. Copper coat on both sides of the new head gasket, bolt 'er home. Bars leak the cooling system because it sounds like your radiator isn't in great shape anyway. Not much lost if the bar's leak clogs up the radiator and the cracks in the block. RUN IT while you shop for a block with fewer cracks.

[jeffwho]

This morning I had to go back to work, after breakfast with Floyd of course. 90 years young and still full of fight, gotta love it. He was sad to hear that the jeep was down, but he's a bit of a shadetree mechanic himself and I went over all that's happened with Lucille with him over Hardee's biscuits and gravy. Here in a few days I will have about three straight weeks off, so I will be irritating you guys about best sources and practices (after reading up on all of it) for gaskets, etc. Bear with me, this is what I am thinking:

We know the head gasket blew. Need a new one, and other gaskets too
We know there are small cracks spanning two boltholes over the water jacket in the block;
I know now that the rings are in good shape, as they didn't leak oil Sunday;
I also so now that I have WAY more confidence -or at least in taking stuff apart!- than ever;
AND the radiator might not be 100% but am thinking can be patched ... OR BARS like Rudy says ...

SO

I am leaning toward putting it all back together and driving her until I can find another 100% block OR maybe I can find someone to drill and pin the existing block. I trust your judgment and expertise implicitly. Besides, IF things go awry I will feel WAY more comfortable disassembling everything again. Who knows, I might just get lucky and get years of good service out of her!






By the way, I also know that #34087 is just NOT the right paint for my liking, so if anyone wants two rattlecans, let me know

[Deleted]

The center oval hole in the block where you can look down into the water jacket commonly cracks to the nearest studs. No worries here. It's the next set of outer studs. If it leaves those and heads for a cylinder or valve area. BAD News! Those need fixing. Another place to watch is a crack leaving a valve seat headed inwards. If any cylinder area is clean of carbon or rust pitted. That would be where to start looking. Oilly

[jeffwho]

Man, I really need to get off my duff and get some photos posted ... Oilly you nailed it, the large oval in the centre is where one crack is. The other cracks are located at the stud hole and spans outward into the two smaller oval openings directly above the centre "vee" of the exhaust manifold. I'm bushed: work, cooking, laundry and cleaning solo with ol Peg Leg sidelined sucks!