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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 11:31:37 GMT -5
Because only the best and brightest hang out here, I brought this problem here for evaluation. Just how badly am I screwed? Blue started blowing steam yesterday. Today I pulled the head and Copper gasket. The whole thing popped off fairly easily. That in and of itself is curious. Inspection of the gasket clearly showed a rust deposit at the site of the crack. This motor has never been rebuilt. It still has standard size pistons. Temps have been running at or near 180º-190º, but, day before yesterday it popped up to near 205º-210º I'm losing coolant internally. Oil pressure has maintained a good 50-60psi under driving conditions, except at warm idle when it drops to 20-25. Please expound on your thoughts...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 13:21:27 GMT -5
That crack isn't a problem. It's when they are on the other side and headed toward the valve pockets. You may have simply blown a head gasket. Check for flatness and and put in a new gasket. Warm it up, and then re-torque the head. Some let it cool down before re-torque, but I do it hot. I also put in some Bars leak which helps plug those cracks. You could have the head magnafluxed also. I've had two of those crack on me. I think the retorque is a very important step that gets missed. I also never use the steel, one sided felpro head gasket. Either the copper, or all fiber are the best. Hope that's all it was. Keep an eye on your plugs. Especially after sitting over night. If they are wet, you got something wrong still. Oil
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 14:24:09 GMT -5
Since that stud is in a blind hole that's what I was thinking. The fact that the head separated so easily from the copper gasket and the gasket from the block tells me I may not have used enough copper spray when I replaced it before. Gonna read the directions on the can VERY carefully this time. Re-torque while warm is SOP, isn't it? I cleaned the block and de-carboned the pistons ( I'm so proud of those little stampings in each ( STD⎯) ) and valves. I used a machinists rule every which way on the block and it is flat. I cleaned up and de-carboned the head. Magnified inspection showed no visible cracks. After cleaning the top-side, I've shot some clear to keep the newly cleaned-up finish shiny, so tomorrow I'll run the machinists rule across it. I like the idea of the Bars Leak and will pick up some tomorrow. Thanks buddy.
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 16:07:00 GMT -5
Rick,
When you say streaming , could you explain some more?
Also I was under the assumption you use NO copper spray on the copper gaskets, and that they are reusable.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 16:27:54 GMT -5
Steam in the exhaust. Copper spray fills in the minor imperfections in the surface and I would be loathe to reuse any gasket, copper or not, unless it's an emergency.
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 16:43:05 GMT -5
Have you pulled the dipstick and looked at the oil?
I know dumb question, but thought I would ask.
And what color is the steam or smoke coming from the tailpipe?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 17:49:46 GMT -5
Yes. There is some moisture in the oil. Steam is white. But as I said, the head and gasket came off very easily, despite 70lbs of torque.
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 18:33:56 GMT -5
Yes. There is some moisture in the oil. Steam is white. But as I said, the head and gasket came off very easily, despite 70lbs of torque. This is what I understand about the BEST brand copper gasket. That is the beauty of it. No sealants. It comes apart and can be reused. Just in talking, sometimes that's how these things get solved. White smoke indicated coolant in the pistons being burned. That could mean blown head gasket. Also, throwing this out there, you have one crack. Just my personal experience, the ones you don't see are there as well. I agree also with the leaker about a cracked head. Now on the other side. It has been very cold in the Carolinas and wet, then Very Warm. Is it a possibility at all that there was some heavy condensation in your muffler? I am no expert, but have found that bouncing ideas around gets great results...especially when you have that......OHHHHHHHH! moment? Others Here...Thoughts on Copper Gaskets? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 18:46:08 GMT -5
I'm assuming you know to drill a hole in the T stat if you haven't already. A M38 has the waterpump bypass, but a 2A or 3A doesn't. Huge problems with the engine getting quite hot before the T stat opens if you don't. I neglected to do it on my F head with no bypass. Never has burped since I drilled it. Works fantastic. Also on old brit bikes, you can heat the copper head gaskets up red and quench in water. It anneals the copper soft. But--------they are air colled engines so I too vote for a new gasket everytime. Oil
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 18:53:39 GMT -5
We are trying to help the Scout Out here I understand... But check this out. Best GasketSo are we talking about the same copper gasket? More opinions on Cracked blocks and heads? What about the condensate comment...? Lets dig in here  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 19:08:45 GMT -5
I'm assuming you know to drill a hole in the T stat if you haven't already. A M38 has the waterpump bypass, but a 2A or 3A doesn't. Huge problems with the engine getting quite hot before the T stat opens if you don't. I neglected to do it on my F head with no bypass. Never has burped since I drilled it. Works fantastic. Also on old brit bikes, you can heat the copper head gaskets up red and quench in water. It anneals the copper soft. But--------they are air colled engines so I too vote for a new gasket everytime. Oil On a motorcycle head (and many other engines) the copper is a solid piece, the Best gasket is layered. The motorcycle type can be heated red hot and then quenched in water to anneal it, this makes it soft again, and can be re-used. Scoutpilot, very closely inspect the combustion chamber of #3, if a Go-Devil head cracks, this is the spot!  . Did the gasket have any visible damage, cracks, damaged fire ring ?. Lee  |
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 19:14:52 GMT -5
Scoutpilot, very closely inspect the combustion chamber of #3, if a Go-Devil head cracks, this is the spot! . Did the gasket have any visible damage, cracks, damaged fire ring ?. Lee |
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 19:16:04 GMT -5
Please someone else confirm that you CAN NOT always see these cracks!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 19:26:07 GMT -5
HG -The copper gasket is coming from Walck's. This is the first one of his to fail on me. I think my prep for it wasn't up to snuff.
Oil - 1/8" hole is SOP on my T-stats.
Lee - I'll take a magnifier and do a closer inspection of the head tomorrow. The one in the block pic was obvious after cleaning.Thanks Gentlemen and Scott.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 19:28:37 GMT -5
IMHO, the block crack is a Non-Factor, mine has one as well. Lee |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 19:41:21 GMT -5
Another trick after cleaning the surfaces is to spray solvent on the surface and wipe it off with a rag. Then quickly look for a wet line. The cracks hold the solvent and you can see them. Otherwise it's magnaflux. Interestingly, my machinist does not want them cleaned or blasted. The cracks show up with the magnaflus powder better dirty. Oil
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 19:56:49 GMT -5
Scout....refresh my memory please. I recall (in my head it was last year, but in reality, it was probably 2-3 years ago!) you had the head off of blue in the recent past. I have no idea why I remember that. Anyways, what was the reason for that? Any chance this is a carryover? Probably not, but might lend another clue.
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Post by zooke581 on Mar 12, 2015 20:06:01 GMT -5
As for copper gaskets, on my race motorcycles I always use copper head gaskets and every time I install them I use Copper Coat spray on each side before installation. When I had to reuse them I annealed them and recoated with Copper Coat. Never had a problem.
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 20:08:07 GMT -5
Getting Off Topic...Help The Brother Out!
My Best Is The Best! Did you not read the link? GEEEEEZZZZZZZZZ!
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 20:10:07 GMT -5
Scout....refresh my memory please. I recall (in my head it was last year, but in reality, it was probably 2-3 years ago!) you had the head off of blue in the recent past. I have no idea why I remember that. Anyways, what was the reason for that? Any chance this is a carryover? Probably not, but might lend another clue. Who wants to parley ...that's French....its a crack in the head. Like the one in Mooses'   |
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Post by Haines Garage on Mar 12, 2015 20:11:18 GMT -5
Another trick after cleaning the surfaces is to spray solvent on the surface and wipe it off with a rag. Then quickly look for a wet line. The cracks hold the solvent and you can see them. Otherwise it's magnaflux. Interestingly, my machinist does not want them cleaned or blasted. The cracks show up with the magnaflus powder better dirty. Oil Ole School Cool...and 100% correct! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 4:10:44 GMT -5
Scout....refresh my memory please. I recall (in my head it was last year, but in reality, it was probably 2-3 years ago!) you had the head off of blue in the recent past. I have no idea why I remember that. Anyways, what was the reason for that? Any chance this is a carryover? Probably not, but might lend another clue. HG - The crack is in the block. I gotta go with the combined wisdom of Lee and Oil. Zookie - Thanks for the tip. However, I'll have to inspect that old gasket very closely before it goes in the recycling box. Thank boys! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 7:09:49 GMT -5
I swear I remember (but you'll know better!) that it was Ole Blue that you had to do something major on! Or was that other block in Blue? Oh.....I bet that was it. I'll shut up and let the others continue with the diagnosis.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 9:01:47 GMT -5
I swear I remember (but you'll know better!) that it was Ole Blue that you had to do something major on! Or was that other block in Blue? Oh.....I bet that was it. I'll shut up and let the others continue with the diagnosis. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 20:48:47 GMT -5
Well Scoutpilot, did you crack out the looking glass yet! ?? Lee |
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. Did the gasket have any visible damage, cracks, damaged fire ring ?.
